PhorestFM Episode 338: Michelle Tanner on Building a Business for the Life You Want

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I know you self-describe, on your website anyways, as a hype woman, systems queen. Hype woman, by the way, I had to self-describe as a hype boy. I’m- we’ve been on the same wavelength there. So systems queen, business educator, speaker, podcaster, and those who listen to your show know that on July 20 or 22nd of this year, you released an episode sharing that after 87 weeks straight, you were hanging up the skates, at least for now.

How does it feel to have been back behind a microphone today? 

[00:00:30] Michelle Tanner: I actually loved it. I loved that someone else was driving the car today. Like I loved that it was, I got to be a guest. I really loved that because I just got to rock up and just connect with someone else, and I don’t know what’s gonna happen with my podcasting future, but it was like so refreshing and I think the skates will, maybe will never be put away completely.

But um, it was, it was just so much fun. I just love to connect with, with you and with people in our industry and to share, you know, my story. ‘Cause everything that I do and teach is just literally stuff coming from my salons every single day. And that’s why I love doing my podcast, and that’s what I loved about today, is just really telling you that everything I teach or every advice I give, literally stuff I’m using and living in my salons every single day.

I’m on the, I’m in the kitchen still, in the, in the hot kitchen in the salon. 

[00:01:22] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:01:22] Season 10 Intro: We have an obligation to the industry that we serve, that we serve it in the right manner. Being a business owner ain’t for the weak. The expectations are just different. There’s always a way. When you’re born into something this special, you can’t help but fight for it.

[00:01:35] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Céad Míle Fáilte! One hundred thousand welcomes to the PhorestFM podcast, brought to you by Phorest Software. I’m your resident host, Alex Bélisle-Springer, and joining me today is Michelle Tanner, multi-salon owner, business coach, international speaker, and someone you’ll get the chance to learn from at the Phorest Summit 2027.

Somehow it is that time of the year again where here on the podcast we bring you a taste of the energy, topics, and conversations you can expect from the upcoming Phorest Summit event. Now, as I’m sure you know, if you run events, putting together a conference of this magnitude is a year-round affair. And well, I guess you could say the countdown is officially on with just a smidge over 100 days to go before we all gather in Ireland again.

See, I was gonna say Dublin, but that is not the case in 2027. If you’ve had the chance to listen to the recent PhorestFM episode tracing back the origin story of the Phorest Summit, follow Phorest on socials, or have been quietly browsing the Summit website lately, then you already know this. But I try not to make assumptions.

So for the first time in its decade-long history, the Summit will take place in Killarney, County Kerry. For those unfamiliar with Ireland, Killarney is a town situated in the southwest of the country on the beautiful shores of Lough Leane. It’s a stop on the Ring of Kerry scenic drive, home to 19th century buildings, and the start and finishing point of the 200 kilometer Kerry Way walking trail But taking the Summit beyond the city isn’t just a change of venue.

It’s a chance to experience it in a more connective, immersive, and memorable way. Just as our software is built to look beyond the booking and help your business grow, we’re branching out from Dublin to anchor your Summit experience in a soulful new perspective. With that, we’ve landed on Beyond as the 2027 theme.

So across two immersive days, the Summit is being designed to help salon, spa, and clinic owners see beyond the day-to-day, prepare for what’s next, and build a stronger business for the future. How, you might ask? By bringing practical insights, emergent ideas, and meaningful conversations to you from the main stage to the workshops and everything in between.

If you’ve been wondering what the future holds in our industry, then you might wanna consider joining the craic. And when I say craic, it’s written C-R-A-I-C. It’s Irish slang for fun. But of course, you’re not gonna be joining just for fun. You’ll be joining for the learning and networking opportunities too.

And this is where I’m getting to. We have one or two episodes every year before the Summit where we get to speak to either a main stage or workshop speaker and get to know them better, give you a preview of their energy, give you a preview of what they’re going to be bringing to the Summit. And Michelle Tanner is one of the many speakers announced for the 2027 event.

Trust me when I say she’ll be bringing the mic drops and aha moments. She’s even got a few in this very episode. She’s driven and bold, passionate and caring. She quite literally embodies what it means to build a thriving, systemized salon business from the ground up. At just 24, Michelle packed a suitcase and moved from Australia to Switzerland.

No job lined up, no plan, no grasp of the language. A story that feels oddly similar to mine, except I was going from Canada to Ireland just one year older than she was at the time and carried lots of grief instead of facing a language barrier. But that’s beside the point. Aside from this Venn diagram of our lives at age 24, 25 overlap, our paths differ quite substantially, and that’s the beauty of this industry.

There are so many routes you can take to contribute and enable the future that you want to see. So with pretty much just a few questions and a ton of curiosity for where those questions would take us, I recently sat down for an unfiltered conversation one could describe as landing partly as a profile piece, partly as a conversation about building your dream life and business, an exploration I thoroughly enjoyed, and I’m very excited for you to hear.

Again, we go in a ton of directions, and yet somehow it’s all connected. And I think that in many ways, that speaks to the experience of being a business owner. You juggle a lot at once, but somehow, with the right support and a whole lot of trust in yourself, the people you work with, your clients It all works out.

And when it doesn’t, you pivot. You try something different, and in the process you keep building your toolbox. And that’s one of the things you’ll leave her workshop with come January 24th and 25th, 2027. A toolbox full of business strategies, systems, and leadership practices she uses inside her own salons every single day.

Because the Phorest Summit isn’t just where ideas are shared. No, we aim to have businesses leave with clearer direction. So without further ado, Michelle, thank you so much for joining me, joining PhorestFM, and spending the time with me today. 

[00:06:47] Michelle Tanner: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. 

[00:06:50] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I sent you a few questions beforehand, and I am gonna be honest, I purposely left out a couple because I was thinking about how we could start this, and then I had an idea, but I didn’t wanna…

I wanted your off-the-cuff answer, I guess. So it’s a two-pronged question. Approximately how many tabs do you have open in your mind right now, and what’s one that we could unpack, explore, maybe even close together today? 

[00:07:20] Michelle Tanner: Oh, my goodness. That is such a… I think no one’s ever asked me that question before.

Maybe they were scared of the answer. So- Yeah. So physical tabs on my laptop a lot, and mental tabs also a lot, so I’d say probably, like, 30, 40, 50 projects, tabs, ideas going all at the same time. And what would be one that we could, like, unpack or close today? Maybe you’re, you are a tab for me. Like, this, this podcast today, you know, thinking about, um, I wanted to be prepared but also not too prepared and, um, making sure I turned up authentically and, you know, always sort of facing, even with how much sort of stage work I do now or how much coaching I do, still having that little bit, “I hope that I turn up authentically and good enough,” right?

Mm. That’s always the back of our minds. So I think a little tab to, like, close for me is that, um, I did this, and I’m proud how it went, and I connected with you, and I already know five minutes in that that’s gonna be the way that that is today. 

[00:08:14] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I have that same feeling. I’m glad you feel that way. And I’m gonna steal a question that you actually were asking on your own podcast, um, as a, as a follow-up here.

What would have to be true for this episode, this experience to be good enough for you? 

[00:08:38] Michelle Tanner: Okay. Wow. Like, this is, this is… I love that you’ve, like, you researched me. What would have to be true- … that this would be, um- That I was just myself, you know, whatever, whatever that, whatever that means. I would be okay if I didn’t know the answer to something, or if I…

Or even better, if my thoughts left the room. That happens with ADHD a lot, where sometimes my, my mind travels and I f- I literally lose my thoughts midway. Just being okay with all of that and, um, giving myself the permission to, to, yeah, be okay with that and be present in the moment. And I think it’s a lot to do with who you’re talking to, and I have such a beautiful vibe with you already that I’m just…

It feels like it’s just me and you, which, um, I love. 

[00:09:21] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yes. Which it is also at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:09:23] Michelle Tanner: Right 

[00:09:24] Alex Bélisle-Springer: And, yeah. And, and honestly, I, I welcome all of this. Um, thank you for sharing. I’m also neurodivergent, so, like, I get you. We’re, 

[00:09:32] Michelle Tanner: we’re- We are special. 

[00:09:34] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Exactly. You 

[00:09:35] Michelle Tanner: and me two. Yeah, and I also think that’s something that I’ve been, you know, we…

I think a lot of us in our industry, I think it’s a lot of us that with all this, you know, we’re all learning more about it now, thanks to, you know how modern everything has become. But also for me, a lot of learning to love that side of myself is a big topic for me at the moment. Because, you know, I really did hate, such a hard word to say, but I hated, you know, a lot of us being, um, um, too much or being for me, too fast and too intense and too wild, and I would really hate that part of me, which is such a hard thing to say.

But now, you know, I’m really working on how can I hate something about me that has created everything in my life that I love now? This energy, this fire, the way that my brain works has created a life that I couldn’t even imagine was, was possible, and I have to still keep talking to myself, talking to her.

Like, it’s the s- it’s the same coin, just two different sides of the same coin. My hyperactive, my, my overwhelm sometimes, but also my energy, my love, my passion, my not need for sleep that I can do a lot of things. So yeah, I know you maybe can relate to that a little bit. It’s kind of loving the two sides of the same coin.

[00:10:42] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, I definitely do relate, and it’s also a big… It’s, well, it’s been a big topic for me as well in the last last few years. It kind of, kind of stemmed at around the same time as I came out as trans. I was just doing a lot of, like, inner reflection about- Yeah … a bunch of different stuff. So, like, you know, things will come up.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it’s been a 

[00:11:01] Michelle Tanner: process. We’ve all got baggage, right? Like, we all have, like, baggage and, and one of your questions, I can’t remember, it was something about my values. And I, I had a, you know, the questions will feel very authentic ’cause I literally skimmed them 10 minutes ago and I already forgot them, so it’ll be very off the cuff.

But I know one of them was about my values. And I was thinking, I wonder how much is, like, nature versus nurture, and how much is my personality versus how much is what happened to me, you know, my childhood. And I think a lot of that is- Mm … for I was, like, unpacking. And I’m a very woo-woo girl. I love my therapy and my inner work, which is why I think I’m such a great boss and, and now, yeah, I love to teach.

Um, because yeah, I really believe that what happened to us or our journey, you know, and I love to unpack. Yeah. And every time I think, “Oh, I did that layer. She’s done.” Whether it was about my eating disorders or whether it was about my, you know, ADHD, I f- you know, 10 years, I finally feel like I’ve put that to bed, and then it’s like an onion, like a whole nother layer- Yeah

with my therapist and my acupuncturist and my energy workers. I’m like, “Am I ever done?” And they always say no. Like, that that’s the whole journey of life is to literally keep diving deep, you know, below the surface and unpacking. Mm. I always say to my husband, it’s like unpacking, taking the books off my bookshelf and reading and learning more about myself, and every time you learn something new, right?

I’m sure that’s what you, you know, what you were saying- Yep … your big journey. Just like, oh, a dark corner of myself that I didn’t know was there. Um, sometimes it’s uncomfortable putting your finger in the wound, but then we grow from it, right? Yeah. Which is what I love. I love self-development, and I love…

Yeah, if it makes me a better wife, a better, a better boss, a better s- teacher, course creator, daughter, everything. Friend 

[00:12:33] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, I totally agree. Also, you think you’ve, you know, done that one layer- Yeah … and then 10 years later, it’s like, “Oh, here it is again.” Yeah. Interesting. 

[00:12:42] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. 

[00:12:42] Alex Bélisle-Springer: In a different, in a different way.

Okay. 

[00:12:43] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, yeah. Cool. Like it’s never really gone, I guess. So sometimes it- … springs back up. You know, I thought I’d sorted you out, so just being kind to ourselves always. So, and also, like I’m massively- Yes … driven obviously, you know, to, I’m a very driven person, and that h- comes with also its negatives of, like always moving to the next thing, and just sometimes being okay with, like having weeks or days.

Like I’m just gonna do the bare minimum, ’cause my bare minimum is still, you know, a hell of a lot. And having seasons or chapters where you’re like, “I’m just gonna be like,” you know, you know, not always deep diving into our souls- Yeah … or, or doing another new project. Just maybe, you know, enjoying what we have now, and that is something that I preach, but I’m always having trouble to actually- Mm

actually do. So sometimes okay just to be and, you know, everything is okay. You know, we’re never gonna be- 

[00:13:29] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah … 

[00:13:30] Michelle Tanner: every week killing it. Sometimes we just gotta float or hibernate. 

[00:13:34] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yes. Yes, or hibernate, yeah. We’re actually coming into fall season here in Montreal, and I feel like a lot of people in my entourage anyways typically start going into hibernation 

[00:13:45] Michelle Tanner: mode.

Right? I, I always think ’cause obviously Canada, America and stuff, you guys are all into, like your pumpkin spices. I always watch stuff on, like movies and, ’cause obviously I’m in Switzerland and I’m Australian, which you can probably hear. So, like I always think, like you guys are having all your pumpkin drinks right now and right?

Your spices and your Thanksgivings. I love to watch that stuff online. 

[00:14:02] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. It’s definitely about to kick off for sure. 

[00:14:05] Michelle Tanner: I look forward to my Instagram feed be, be, be, be f- full of all of that stuff soon, all the oranges and all the… Anyway. 

[00:14:11] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, it’ll be cute. 

[00:14:12] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, I love it. 

[00:14:13] Alex Bélisle-Springer: So, so, like when it comes to all of the projects and all of the, I mean, the different routes that you’ve taken in your career, what’s one maybe fun or particular way your brain works that you feel brought, like was a driving force, I guess, in, in getting to do all these things?

[00:14:34] Michelle Tanner: Um, I, I think you’ve had the best question I’ve ever had in any of these, these, these talks before. Great question. I would say the fact, you know, because I am just a salon owner, just, you know, just a normal person that migrated, you know, came over from Australia and, and came over to Switzerland. And all the things that I’ve built, I didn’t necessarily plan to build these massive salons and, and now speaking on stages and doing these things.

It just was evolving that way. And because my brain- is gorgeous. But c- you know, um, she’s crazy. I’m trying to, trying to always, you know, speak more positively about her. One of the things I think works very well for me because the way my brain works, is that I’m always trying to figure out a problem. So I give a solution for something that I don’t know, and that’s pretty much how everything’s been built inside my salons, how I became a, a great, you know, a, a good, a really great boss.

It’s like, “Okay, I want my team to be more motivated, or I want them to be hitting their goals. I want them to be caring for each other more, or I want to open a second salon.” Or, and all of those questions constantly every day I’m like, “Well, I don’t know how to do that,” or, “I don’t know the answer.” So my, my brain every time is creating a new system or educating myself on something new to solve that problem.

And then I’m like, “Done.” And then I- … then I have the next one, or it evolves, and that’s kind of how everything has- Yeah … always been for me. I’m just obsessed with learning. Um, I’m super self-aware person anyway. I think it’s all my th- all about therapy stuff. So I know my faults. My faults, my, my areas that I have to watch out for and my strengths, and yeah, I think my brain constantly wanting to solve problems inside of my business and because my business is my, is my biggest passion.

So I wasn’t- Yeah … very good at school. Like, I think a lot of us, you know, may- maybe not, but I think a lot of our industry are not tr- traditionally, um, good at school. Um, but then once we find something fixated that we, that we love, like, for me, it was hairdressing, damn, are we a powerhouse. That’s what happened to me.

Now I’m like- … spreadsheets and formulas and numbers. And now people are like, “Wow,” like, “You’re really good at numbers and finances.” I’m like, “You would, no one ever would’ve told me that when I was in high school.” Because that’s something that I care about that, that you then- Yeah … wanna know the answer, and no one can tell me the answer.

I’m gonna figure it out for myself. So that is how my brain is, is special, is constantly trying to find new ways or solve problems that I have in my everyday life. 

[00:16:52] Alex Bélisle-Springer: And I feel like that’s so amazing because it just… I can imagine how full of a toolbox you have. Like, you just- … have so many resources and experiences to- Yeah

lean onto when you’re faced with something new that you’re like, “Oh, how do I deal- Yeah … with this 

[00:17:07] Michelle Tanner: now?” Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also, it’s so changing. Like, what I believed six months ago or a year ago, m- I might not believe it now. You know? Like, whether I’ve grown and changed- Yeah … or whether the, the industry has changed.

So also, sometimes I believe something or something works for that season or that moment, and then I’m really open to like, okay, scrap it or adjust it. So that’s probably, yeah, one of my skills is always to keep evolving and changing because, like especially in our industry, for anything, marketing or hiring- Yeah

or, or building things up is, yeah, it’s always… So maybe in like a year from now, I’ll be like, “Oh, that wasn’t, that wasn’t, that’s not true anymore.” 

[00:17:46] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, we’ll have to, we’ll have to, like, have a little check-in next year. 

[00:17:49] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, that’s right. 

[00:17:49] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Um- 

[00:17:49] Michelle Tanner: Hope it ages well. 

[00:17:51] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, exactly. What are you learning right now?

‘Cause you’ve mentioned learning quite a few times at this point. Like, what are you learning right now, and why does it matter to what you’re trying to achieve in your life- Yeah … or your career right now? 

[00:18:05] Michelle Tanner: What am I learning right now? So I guess this question will be different tomorrow or yesterday. It depends on the, the, the moment today, but right now, I guess learning for me is also more of me trying to figure something out.

Mm, what’s right now? Right now, I’m literally in the process of wanting to expand my first location, so my, my original salon. I have two. Mm. And, um, I wanna put in 12 wash basins and 24 chairs, so it’s gonna be, you know, bigger. 

[00:18:36] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yep. 

[00:18:37] Michelle Tanner: And- 

[00:18:38] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Substantially. 

[00:18:38] Michelle Tanner: What I’m trying to… Yeah. So what I’m trying to figure out now is, which I have, I’m pretty close to fi- I have figured out, but I want to figure it out better, is how much space that I have that’s not been renovated- How can I utilize that space with maximum profitability, wash basins to chair ratio, but also having enough lunch rooms and spaces for clients and for team members?

[00:19:00] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:19:01] Michelle Tanner: Therefore, what, how many more team members will I be able to hire when it’s at its max capacity? And I’m figuring out with spreadsheets and numbers right now, based on all the team members I have, if they were, let’s say, 80% booked out, 70% booked out, what revenue would all of those new people bring in, right?

Right. Therefore, what, what sort of investment could I comfortably be, you know, not comfortably. It’s a big spread. It’s not- Let’s be real … let’s be honest. Hundreds of thousands. You know, Switzerland is, is deep, deep pricey, but yeah, if I’m gonna be investing possibly, you know, hundreds of thousands of, of dollars, like how long, based on those calculations, will it take for me to make back that investment?

And is that- Mm … you know, is that, is that something that’s viable? Is that a good idea? Rather than me, which the old me, it’s pretty and I’ve already– I’ve done that too. Don’t worry. My other- … my other tab is, like, a Pinterest board. But yeah, right now I’m literally thinking, “Okay, how much should I in– not could I, should I invest in this?

And what is the profitability of, of that area space? And when it is then duly used, like, how much is that per year more, and therefore, is it worth it or is it worth it not?” So that’s- Mm … the, what I’m learning right now or teaching myself right now. Yeah, there’s l- lots of numbers and spreadsheets open.

Because I have two very- Yeah … successful salons already, I can use a lot of that data I already have on the average of what my team are making and, you know. 

[00:20:20] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:20:21] Michelle Tanner: Things like that. Well- But you know, you can’t, you can’t, I love, I love numbers because they don’t mess about. But, you know, you know, you can only pl- you can only plan so much, but a staff member could leave me in six months- Yeah, that’s true

and I have to rebuild her. Like, you know, you gotta, you can’t ca- allocate for these type of things. I have a very high retention in my salon. In, like, nine years, I think only three stylists have left me. Wow. But different industries, one came back, so I have a massive retention of my staff. Like, seven years, eight years, six years.

Um- Kudos to you … so I am, yeah, like, I am pretty confident, but it’s gonna happen. Yeah. So I gotta also try to plan for things that are not black and white, like numbers, which is staff leaving or someone getting… Like, one of my staff members right now has a, has a wrist surgery, so variables, which I don’t love.

[00:21:04]  Alex Bélisle-Springer: Mm. 

[00:21:04] Michelle Tanner: That’s managing people. But that’s what I’m learning or trying to figure out right now as I go through this next process of expanding my original location. 

[00:21:13] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Oh my God. So it’s exciting times then. 

[00:21:15] Michelle Tanner: Happy you asked. 

[00:21:15] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah.

[00:21:17] Michelle Tanner: Let me talk about spreadsheets. 

[00:21:19] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Well, I mean, I feel like at the Summit, you know, it’s, it’s, you’re going to be at, if anything, at least, um, referring to, to spreadsheets, because from my understanding, you’re hosting a workshop on profitability at the Summit 2027.

[00:21:34] Michelle Tanner: That’s right. 

[00:21:35] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Was there a, a, a moment specifically in your, um, maybe in, in the running of your own salons where you realized you were doing something you didn’t think twice about that you’re like, “Ooh, actually this is impacting my profitability a ton.” 

[00:21:47] Michelle Tanner: Um, yeah, like a million. Um, we don’t know what we don’t know.

You know, we don’t know what we don’t know. And, um, my first salon was very successful, but l- looking back, it could have gone, like, the other direction because so much I didn’t know, you know? Mm. And I borrowed insane amount of money over in Switzerland, like almost half a million to open my first salon because it’s very expensive over here.

Paid it back in record time, about three or four years, but that was the hustle phase of my life, which I know you’re gonna have a question about that. Um, but yeah, so what was, what was 

[00:22:18] Alex Bélisle-Springer: the question? The question was, so is- 

[00:22:18] Michelle Tanner: I did, I did really well till then. 

[00:22:20] Alex Bélisle-Springer: You did. Yeah, yeah. Um, was there a specific moment in the running of your salons that you were like, “Oh, I’m, I’ve, I’ve just been doing this, but actually it’s, it’s quite detrimental to my profitability”? 

[00:22:32] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. So yeah, so absolutely, but specifically that first three or four years when I was, like, in that hustle mode and I had a massive clientele, um, and I was working as an employee, right?

Mm. Inside of our businesses, which all of us pretty much do. Most, most of us do. And the cash was flowing, right? And when the cash is flowing, you don’t really look into the corners of your business where you could m- minimize costs or, or, or things like that until a situation comes where you maybe need to.

And that’s what happened to me is I then slowly started cutting back from behind the chair. I now no longer do I don’t do any clients behind the chair anymore. 

[00:23:10] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Mm. 

[00:23:10] Michelle Tanner: And when I started doing that, I was realizing how much of my business’ success was actually Right? A lot of us have this. Yeah. Was actually me behind the chair making the money that we c- claim as profit in a business was actually our… You know what I’m trying to say. 

[00:23:26] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:23:27] Michelle Tanner: So when I sort of cut down behind the chair slowly, and the profit margin lowered naturally, then I was like, “Right, I wanna get a little bit smarter.” And that’s when I noticed like I let my team- … order, like, just a few things, but, like, the ordering without having any, like, con- I’m a, I’m a systems queen now, but you know, just ordering things I didn’t even know about, um, color wastage.

Um, oh, my team members, this is a good one. You know, I don’t wanna give all the goodies away for the, for the Summit, but, you know, letting your team members, not letting them, but not being aware that your team members stretch out two hours for highlights or two and a half hours to put on a highlight instead of, you know, letting that time stretch, and they look booked out, but they just take forever to do something, and really not, um, charging correctly for that or not training them to work on their speed.

Like, so many holes in my bucket- 

[00:24:17] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Mm … 

[00:24:17] Michelle Tanner: um, that when then I got off of the chair, and then I opened a second location, and there are phases in my career where I had to be more careful with money ’cause I expanded and got off the chair. That’s when I, I don’t know, like- When I was more careful with product wastage and product ordering, I think I saved about 4 or 5% a year on product, my product company wasn’t happy from wastage because you can imagine that over 100K.

You know, is a lot of money. So, you know, I wish I’d learned that in the first three or four years, which is why I wanna teach it to everyone else so they can, they can you can, they can save like I didn’t. But yes, I think just not having your eye in all of the right areas of your business ’cause you’re too bloody busy trying to get the foils in your client’s hair, trying to do some content while their color’s on, trying to put out fires. Like, we are the only industry that I know that we are, you know, often the, the biggest breadwinner, you know, on the chair while trying to be a boss- Yeah … while trying to balance the books. So no shade. Um, I did that. I still probably have areas of our business that I could dive into more, and I don’t do clients, so for all of you that still do clients, I don’t know how you do it.

Um, so yeah, that was probably one, product wastage, team members doing whatever they wanted with their schedules, like giving away freebies to clients like it’s their gift. Right?

[00:25:29] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:25:29] Michelle Tanner: Things like that just going on under my nose that I was too busy to notice or too cash rich at the time to care about, and then afterwards it changed.

[00:25:37] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Big stuff. Big stuff. I have another question specific to the workshop, but before I get into that, um, I’m gonna bring us back to maybe a few things that you’ve mentioned. Like, when I, when I hear you talk about all the things we’ve, we’ve discussed so far, I hear a lot of you valuing, like, structure and- Mm

um, you know, authenticity and drive, ambition. What would you say, A, your values actually are, and have, have they made your career feel easier or harder, do you feel? 

[00:26:09] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. Um, that’s a good question. I think, like, who I am or my values and… It’s definitely Made my career easier, I would say, because naturally I can connect with peach- people very fast, and naturally, um, I have a lot of energy and I have a lot of passion.

So that’s, I think, in any career, but especially with our career, especially when I was, um, on the chair, and now especially- Mm … when I’m managing a large team, that kind of, I’m very even-temperament. Psychotic, but always the same. You know, like, you won’t see… You could ask my team members, you, you won’t see me moody one day and then cold the next.

I’m always a consistent high energy feeling. My team feel very safe with me- Yeah … because of that. So that has been very helpful for dealing with people when you’re a boss or, right? But I also think sometimes on the other side of that, you know, it has been more challenging for me, especially in my earlier years of opening a salon, of this people-pleasing part of me that often is connected with that, where I want to be loved and liked.

And I’m sure a lot of that is who I am, but I’m sure a lot of that is from my growing up being awfully bullied story when I was younger. So I had to work through a lot of that. And, you know, definitely I made mistakes with my team members at the beginning. The first few years I wanted to be the best boss ever, so I would say yes to everything and then end up resenting them behind the scenes and grumbling about them when I was the one that, you know, gave them that money or whatever it was.

So just learning to, yeah, still be me and have the values that work so well, um, for me, but also learning to have a few tools in place. Like, I have to always think through at least for 48 hours before I say yes to anyone. I have to have specific barriers in place with my personality ’cause I’ll give away the farm, you know?

Like, I will just… Like, also ’cause I love to give. It’s my love language, gifts. Oh my God, right now if you can see it, there’s like a… I can’t say this ’cause maybe my team are listening if this is, but like- … there’s a, there’s a box there of, like, we have our anniversary next week, of all the gifts I’ve bought my team.

It’s more for me than them. Like, all handmade. Like, all these gifts, right, I can see. I love to, like, put on an anniversary party and, and s- a surprise tattoo artist comes in. Like, me and my b- my business partner, every year we try and top our… So I love to give gifts because it’s, it’s probably more for me, you know?

Right. So, um, you know, it’s like the mom that does the party for the two-year-old that’s not gonna remember. But yeah, so- Right … my values are, are beautiful. But yes, they have helped me because I can connect with clients and staff and, and I get people, you know, and, and I can always put myself in someone else’s shoes very easily, um, especially staff members.

Yeah. Even if they are doing something I don’t think was ideal, I know why they were doing it, um, and I’m calm. Like, that’s not the right word. I am, I am consistent, um, with my, with my moods or with my personality that my team feel very safe. So I think that’s probably been a great natural asset to my career.

[00:28:51] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I’m- that’s amazing. Yeah, I love that. You, you mentioned, um, in your answer earlier a little bit about your upbringing, like growing up and, and, and being bullied, and I’m, I’m so sorry you went through that. Um, you grew up in Australia and moved to Switzerland, I think you were 24, 25? 

[00:29:08] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, that’s right. Two years ago. 

[00:29:10] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Um- No, I’m just kidding. Yeah, exactly. 15 years ago. Well, that’s funny because I- 15 years … I ended up moving to Dublin at 25, like similar kind of, not because I, I was, you know, I had fallen in love with someone. Anyone familiar with your podcast will know what I’m referring to. But like I strongly encourage going back to listen to that.

[00:29:26] Michelle Tanner: Ooh, that’s it. But- Out of all the ones you listened to, that was it. 

[00:29:29] Alex Bélisle-Springer: That was one of them. 

[00:29:30] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. That was probably the hottest one on there, so yeah. 

[00:29:34] Alex Bélisle-Springer: But I appreciate your vulnerability with that one- Yeah … ’cause it takes a lot. It, it takes a lot to share that kind of story 

[00:29:40] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, the heartbreak that led to, led to, yeah, that led to this life, but yeah 

[00:29:45] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. Um, but I, I also, you know, fully relate to moving to a different country, no… Like, I don’t have an apartment, I don’t have a job necessarily waiting me like, waiting there for me. I didn’t kn- personally, I didn’t actually know anyone there in Ireland. Yeah. But anyways, you were planning potentially a return to Australia. I don’t know if that has changed since.

[00:30:05] Michelle Tanner: no. 

[00:30:06] Alex Bélisle-Springer: It’s, well- Um- 

[00:30:06] Michelle Tanner: You know me, it could change fast, but this one still seems like one. Yeah. Ask me tomorrow. No, no. 

[00:30:12] Alex Bélisle-Springer: But I was wondering, you know, being… Or having spent so much time in both countries in, in quite formative years, different stages but still quite formative years, is there chapters in your life in Australia that still influence the way that you work, and vice versa with Switzerland?

Like, is there something or differences in the cultural context or the industry’s context in both those countries that has influenced the way that you work today? 

[00:30:41] Michelle Tanner: Um, yeah, I, I mean, yeah, like, I was 24 when I moved here, and now I’m 40 almost. So sometimes I for- like, I forget what it was because most of my, yeah, my career is here, and definitely my adulthood is here.

And it’s crazy how sometimes some words or some, some ways I put together words are similar to the German format. So, um, it is, it is different. But what I remember from, I was an apprentice in Australia, obviously, and I only worked in one salon, apprentice and then stylist and, and seven years, and I had a great boss.

So, um, I never had another one like, like her afterwards. I didn’t have many others. I was… But, um, Tricia her name is, and- Shout out … it, yeah, ’cause I will actually because even my business partner, she says, um, “You’re still…” My business partner said to me other day, she said to me, she said, “The way you talk about Tricia,” look at me getting emotional, “will pop, will, will be how these gi- our girls,” ’cause we have actually one boy now, “but our team will talk about you in years to come.”

And I still sometimes catch myself saying something that Tricia told me all those, all those years ago or, or a technique and a haircut. She was just old school and amazing and all that base stuff I still use. And, um, even things she’d say like, no matter… You know, I remember one time I went to- like a, a show, a hair show back then.

That’s the only way you could learn. And we’re all a bit too cool for school, and I was like, “Oh, but not that good on stage,” and all of that. I was very young, like 18, 19. And Tricia said to me, pulled me aside, and she said, you know, um, “You will never lose when you come to an outside event because either you’ll learn something new,” but only if you’re open-minded.

“You’ll learn something new. Um, you know, you’ll meet new people.” Or she’d say, “Or you’ll realize how good you actually do do it in a salon, and you should actually be proud of what you’re doing.” So just even these little things now that have weaved into, to, yeah, me being a boss now, and of course I’m… You know, my boss back then was 65, so she’s probably 80 now.

Um, so definitely t- t- times have changed. But that core, she was my mentor. She was everything to me. I wanted to please her so badly. I know and I feel I have that effect on my team members. We have a lot of boundaries. I, I’m really big on boundaries. My team member, I wouldn’t be able to tell you probably even their boyfriend’s name if they’re new or if they’re living.

None of that I would know. But I would know, like, you know, how they like to learn and if they have any trauma and, and, and we’re so close. Yeah. You know, as, I’m their mentor, and they look up to me, and they wanna please me. That’s the biggest power that I have. They wanna please me, and that’s why, um, they wanna make me proud, therefore make themselves proud.

And that kind of, um, I learned from my boss, Tricia, and it’s just also who I am, that I’m now that type of mentor to my team- Mm … here in Switzerland that I experienced back when I was 17 to 24 in Australia. 

[00:33:24] Alex Bélisle-Springer: That’s really, really cool- … and so special. And also you mentioned, you know, the biggest power that you have being that they wanna please you.

[00:33:32] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. 

[00:33:32] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I feel like with that comes a lot of responsibility. 

[00:33:35] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. 

[00:33:35] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Do you feel that way? 

[00:33:36] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. Like, I mean, I do think… Yesterday I, I did a lot of, I read a lot of… The more I worked on myself and the more therapy I got and the more woo-woo stuff, just the better I became at being a boss because you’re not triggered as much.

And you know, you know the feeling, like before it used to be when some of my team member at the very beginning would ask me, “Hey, I’m just wondering, do we get paid for this or whatever?” Like this feeling of, oh my God, they’re so ungrateful. When I was young- Yeah … like all of this baggage would come up for me, and I had to really work on that.

And to create a new modern, you know, workspace for, or environment for, for the young is like letting them be able to ask every question. Doesn’t mean that I have to say yes to everything, but you know, not being triggered. And if I am triggered, keep that sh- that inside, and then, you know, go bag them out to my pri- my husband at home and then be a safe base for them.

So yeah, I think that’s definitely been a journey of me, you know- Yeah, it is a lot of responsibility to… Yeah, that is, it’s actually, it’s a lot of responsibility to be a mentor because my skills at this stage, I mean, I hope one day I’m outdone, but my skills for Lived in Colors in my salons, I’m still the top.

I make sure that I am. So that might not always be a way. Like, I’m sure the one day where they get better than me if I, if I stop, you know, learning and t- and, and training, and I think I will stop. That helps me to stay on top. But also just doing what I want them to do is leading by example. It sounds so easy- Yeah

everyone says it, but, like, really having always a great attitude and always looking turned out with the way I look and being kind to everyone and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But it is a lot of responsibility. But, um, I never lead by fear. Like, I, that’s just who I am, but I’ve never yelled at a team member in nine years.

Never. And there has been times, a couple of times in partic- you know, that I’ve had really disappointed in them, like they’ve done something really naughty. Like, like naughty to me means like back then, now they don’t ’cause my culture’s so strong, but when I was building it, naughty means to me that they were not talking kind about another female.

That’s very big in my salon. Mm. Um, we are now known for having great culture, but it took so much work to get it like that. So I had to have these conversations, like, “Hey, I heard this or this happened,” and get… They hate, they used to hate it. Get the girls in the room. Let’s talk about it, you know, what’s happened.

And there’s been times where I was so disappointed and I had to say to them, my voice would never raise, but I would be like, “I’m so disappointed in this behavior” that, you know, and they would like be crying, ’cause like it’s like their, like their idol is like… you know? 

[00:36:09] Alex Bélisle-Springer: But I also, I feel like sometimes when someone doesn’t raise their voice and say, “I am disappointed”, “and I’m so dis-” or it’s like it hits you 10 times harder. 

[00:36:17] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and I remember saying, I remember one time it was a really big one, and it is a longterm team member, and I’m saying, “I’m so disappointed in this, and I’m so dis-” yeah, something like this. And I said, I h- but I remember saying, “I don’t like this behavior. That doesn’t mean I don’t like you.” 

[00:36:31] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Mm. 

[00:36:32] Michelle Tanner: And I sort of made it clear that w- and when, when that, that talk was over, that she was crying and ashamed, and as she should’ve been that moment, but she had to learn. And I said, “I’m sure you did it because of this reason, because in high school you learned that females, competition was how you, gossip was currency,” all that stuff I talk about.

But then I said, “Once you leave here, that’s done.” And then, you know, then the next time she saw me, I was completely normal, didn’t hold, you know, that’s, that’s- Yeah … you gotta give them the safe space. And a lot of people ask me this when they, when they tell off or give discipline or talk to their team members.

They’re like, “Oh,” but afterwards they’re kind of like really funny with, you know, the, the staff member’s really like… You know, what’s, I’m English, can’t think of it now. 

[00:37:10] Alex Bélisle-Springer: There’s like residue of the, of that conversation? 

[00:37:12] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, or like they’re like sh- Yeah … they’re like pissed, you know what I mean? And I’m like, “That’s like, sorry.

No, you, as a boss, you can’t expect them to, um, bend o- like give you a high five, like thanks so much for the feedback. Like, that’s great.” You know, that’s not how it is. Give them room to feel ashamed, to feel quiet, to feel like they’ve just been told off and, and made to feel maybe a little bit small, even if they…

Give them the afternoon, leave them in with their clients, then you just give, you know, that, that’s my best tip. Give them room to, to get over that. It’s like being told off as a child, like it’s, it’s the same. You know? Yeah. Even if, if I got a bit embarrassed, let them have room and they’ll come back to you emotionally when they’re ready.

And you just keep going on. Don’t grovel after them. Don’t then be annoyed and, “Why are you quiet?” Like, they’re, they’re sad or they’re irritated or they’re ashamed. So yeah, it’s a big responsibility, and I’m still always navigating that, that all my team members- personalities, languages. You can imagine over here

um, you know, we, we speak in in a mix of languages. So it is a big responsibility, but it’s the biggest honor of my life I think to be a mentor to these people, that when they leave me one day, that they’ll always think of me, and hopefully no boss will ever be good enough, and they’ll always re- The, the level, the bar will be so high.

They’ll be like, “Oh, that Michelle, when I was young, she was just the best ever, and no one ever will be better than her.” 

[00:38:33] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. I, well, listen, I wish that is the case. I hope that is. It, the, it sounds like you’re on the right path for it anyways. 

[00:38:42] Michelle Tanner: Just hope. All jokes aside, just to, you know, have a…

I think becoming this boss didn’t really, um, it didn’t, I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t think- Mm … I wanna lead team members and make a difference. It kind of just evolved. Yeah. And now it feels so beautiful to think that, like, what I didn’t realize when I became a boss is that these, especially fem- I have m- majority female.

I have a new boy, so I’m so excited. Mm. I always say, say girls all the time still. But these females come to me at 15, 14, 16. They have more contact with me than they have with anyone else. And- Yeah … me and my business partner, who’s also beautiful, we’re not just teaching hair. That’s the half of it. They go through breakups.

They go through, you know, that, trying to undo all of that female, um, competition that they’ve been taught. We are teaching them how to be grown-ups, how to be women they’re proud of. And now to see them, the, them, they stay with me, like, that teach the younger ones now, to see them grow up, and now they teach the younger ones.

And I hear them say the things that I told them. Like, it’s just the best, the best feeling. And now, you know, after all these years, that the team is just so, you know, stays so long. And, um, I even had one girl tell me last week, she said, “I don’t think if I, if I didn’t work here, I wouldn’t be a hairdresser anymore.

Like, I just only love to be inside this space.” Wow. Um, so yeah, it is now become big, and a big responsibility, and powerful. But at the beginning it was just me fumbling along, trying to figure out how the hell to- You know, do clients, settle the payroll and, and keep everyone happy and alive really. 

[00:40:07] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hustle period maybe. Do you wanna get into that? 

[00:40:11] Michelle Tanner: Oh, yeah. That was- Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, when I read that question I was like, “Okay, yeah, okay. Maybe I said that.” Yeah, go on. 

[00:40:17] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Hit, hit me with it. Yeah. Well, because like for me, um, like there’s, there’s a lot, there’s a lot to unpack when it comes to like hustle.

One of the things that you believe in, from what I gather anyways from the l- the, the, the episodes that I was able to listen to, um, is that, you know, real freedom doesn’t actually come from hustle. Um you can correct me if I’m wrong or if I misread that, um- 

[00:40:40] Michelle Tanner: Maybe I changed my mind. 

[00:40:41] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Maybe you changed your mind.

Exactly. Um, but I also feel like, you know, the world that we live in kind of pushes the narrative that that is the way forward, and if you don’t hustle, if you don’t grind, if you don’t work extremely hard to get the things that you, you deem as successful or whatever it is, like your, your version of success- Yeah

that, you know, somehow it’s not as worthy of celebration. And I was wondering when and in what context that maybe you did realize, “Wait a minute, that’s not how I see things.” 

[00:41:10] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. I think, it’s such a, it’s such a controversial topic, the hustle- It is. … you know, the hustle culture, right? Even for me, like just I wanna be honest about what goes through my mind, and I have pretty much only Gen Z staff.

Like, literally except my… Like, only. So I’ve, I’ve gotten on very well with them and been very successful with them. I had to change my mindset a lot and let go of the fact that it was different when I was young and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I, I teach that on stage a lot actually. But, um, look, we can, like, agree with them or not agree with them about the hustle, but in the end, they- they’re not gonna want, they don’t wanna do that.

The new generation don’t wanna do that, and I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing. You know, look at where our hustle culture got our industry. A lot of toxicity, a lot of, you know, no lunch breaks, bad shoulders. You know, a lot of, a lot of, I think- 

[00:42:00] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Physical and physiological, like, like, repercussions, for sure.

[00:42:05] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. I think also a lot of countries, I know… Yeah, I think a lot of our, a lot of countries, I know, I know Switzerland, Australia, like, people, we can’t seem to attract youth into our industry for a long time- Yeah … because of the bad reputation, right? So now it’s, we’re changing all of that, hopefully. But I do think that there’s a time and a place.

You know, I would say more seasonal hustle. So it’s more about, like, do you, what do you want, and are you willing to sacrifice that for a short amount of time? So I already mentioned when I opened my first salon, I borrowed obscene amount of money, couldn’t sleep at night. So then I had this phase, I was young-ish, 29, and, um, yeah, I was young, 29, so yeah.

100%. And I thought, “Right.” Yeah, right? I was like, “So young.” So yeah, so in that three or four year, or three years, um, you know, I still had weekends and stuff, I think, I don’t know. But I just did, like, I remember doing, like, a highlight with three highlights in between the processing time with two assistants, like, wild.

And that wasn’t something sustainable for long term. 

[00:42:58] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Hmm. 

[00:42:58] Michelle Tanner: Um, so I do think hustle is, is, if you wanna, if you want something, and you wanna go for it, and you wanna hustle for a season, I’m all about that. But I think what I realized in my journey is that, hmm, I got the thing. I did the thing. The set first salon, and I kept waiting for this feeling of like, “Ah,” like, “I did the thing.”

You know what I mean? 

[00:43:25] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:43:25] Michelle Tanner: And that feeling, I think it’s, I, I think, um, obviously entrepreneurs, I think we are wired to continually build and make things. I think I realized that’s, the, the happiness comes from the doing and the making more than the actual result. Um, so I think that was something I realized a- along the way is that that kind of like, “Ah-

moment. My first salon, my first stage talk, my first course, all these big firsts that I did- It didn’t feel as magical as some of the small moments when I was building that stuff along the way. And then I realized, okay, maybe you’re never gonna feel done because that’s not who you are. Like, because I don’t wanna be done.

What would I be doing if I was done? I would be like, like I can’t, like, relax ever. And yeah, ever. Um, my, my poor husband. And then I realized that what makes me happy and w- what am I doing it for? And I sort of went through a lot of that with, um, I think a lot of our childhoods and stuff like that not being enough.

I kept trying to prove to… I don’t know who I was trying to prove it to. Um, so even though I’d built all these beautiful things, and I, and I love them and I’m proud of them I realized that they didn’t scratch that itch. That was some, that was another itch I had to scratch, you know? And I’m still working on that, of being just enough and being still.

So I do believe hustle culture the way it was before, um, should die, but I also think you can choose when you wanna have, like, a hustle season to get to a goal. 

[00:44:49] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah. 

[00:44:49] Michelle Tanner: And I think for me now, I talk a lot about you don’t have to hustle in your salons. That’s what I teach a lot. But maybe for a short term you have to do things.

Like, you will have to do clients, like I had to before, and build a team, and learn how to run a business all at the same time so later on you can maybe then step away some days from clients if you want to ’cause you have enough staff to financially be able to pay you a salary. Like, there is phases where you have to do more than what’s healthy or what you wanna do- Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah … to sacrifice for the future, and that’s what I want, what I, you know, like to talk about, is that- If you don’t, you know, if you just keep going on as you’re going without necessarily, without an exit strategy, maybe as a stylist, or without an, a, of what to do next if your body breaks down, or, um, that’s what I want to empower people, is that you can if you choose to.

I want for every salon owner who is a stylist to be able to choose when they do clients because they want to, not because they financially have to. Yeah. Like, I think e- everyone has a different opinion about that, and, um, should you do clients, should you not? I think everyone should have a, a choice to do that, and I think that’s where I wanting this…

Yeah, like, I feel like there’s so many salon owners that would say to me, “But I, um, I don’t ever wanna stop doing clients like you, and I don’t wanna da, da, da. I don’t wanna…” Yeah. And I’m like, they’re talking to themselves. That used to be me. Because their identity- … so deeply is being a hairdresser- Yeah

and not giving themselves even the permission to say, “Do I wanna cut back a little bit? Would I even like that? What’s gonna happen in 10 years? What would be, you know, the next step for me?” So I think just really me hopefully helping salon owners who are stylists give themselves permission to think what makes them happy.

Do they really still like doing clients five days a week? Are they just telling themselves that they do because they’re too scared that Mrs. Smith will hate them for not doing the root touch-up every Saturday morning? You know, like- Mm. And we have a, “Oh, Mrs. Smith comes in every Saturday, and she has a blow dry, and she will just die if I don’t do her hair.”

Like, what are you missing to do that? Are you missing being with your kids? Are you missing having, like, going to, a weddings? Yeah. Like, you’re not gonna lay on your deathbed when you’re, like, hopefully 105, you’re not gonna lay on your deathbed like, “I’m so glad I did Mrs. Smith’s blow dry every, um, week for 10 years.”

[00:46:57] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Every- Probably not. Yeah, everything you say yes to has, has a cost- Unless- … for sure. 

[00:47:01] Michelle Tanner: Yeah, unless you say, “That fills me up so much. I love to connect to her,” that’s different. This is more about giving the permission to, to think about what makes you happy, and sometimes we’re so busy, especially salon owners or stylists are so busy, you don’t even give yourself room to think about, do I like what I’m doing now?

‘Cause I liked it six months ago, do I still like it now? What is the future for me? Because they’re too busy putting out a million fires. So yes, to your the question you asked me 20 minutes ago, hustle culture um, I think is seasonal, and you choose what you wanna sacrifice to later on get the, get the freedom and get the rewards from that, which usually means building a team and, and, um, right?

Building a team is what normally works for commission-based salons. Building a team, the where staff don’t leave because it’s so good- And that’s what I’m all passionate about. I love my clients. I want them, my clients meaning all of my stylist clients, I love our clients. I love my team, like, so deeply.

Like, they have the best work-life balance, the amazing benefits. Like, you would die. And I wanna make bank and be a badass business owner that earns financial freedom, because why would I do it? Those three things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they all depend on each other. Yeah. My clients being happy and my staff being happy all links together.

So we shouldn’t be shameful about thinking we opened a business to create financial freedom for ourselves. And if that means you can’t have a week off or a month off or have an injury and your business can’t carry you, then it’s not really a business. 

[00:48:24] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Period. And that’s a mic drop from Michelle.

Michelle Tanner: I’m done.

Alex Bélisle-Springer: I’m done, yes. Well, no, but honestly, I do really appreciate the nuance. And, and I, um, yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with, with a lot of, you know, what you said about, like, it’s, it’s, it’s not about not doing any work. It’s about doing the work in a way that’s sustainable. And if there is a time where you have to expend more and, and put in more time, more energy, um, sacrifice more

for a short time- For a short time, yeah … then yeah. Um, but yeah, 100%. Yeah. Um, I wanna bring it back to the workshop and to kind of like slowly bring us to a close. I guess you’ve, you’ve mentioned a, a few things throughout the, the last 40- … 45 minutes that- Clever. No, but that you’re, like, passionate about, you know, helping people solve as problems.

So without giving away the whole workshop, and I know you’re gonna be talking about profitability what is one thing people attending your Phorest Summit session should come ready to rethink? 

[00:49:34] Michelle Tanner: That is, once again, a great question. So it’s gonna be an amazing workshop. I’m literally creating it right now because I wanna make sure that it’s, like, I will change my mind like a million times between now and January.

Um, but coming to the workshop, be open-minded. Um- Yeah. Be open-minded and ready to, yeah, think about what makes you happy and what are you best at in your business, what makes you money, and, and be ready to… Yeah, you know what you should do? You know what you should do? You should be ready to run your salon like a business and not a hobby.

[00:50:09] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Hmm. 

[00:50:12] Michelle Tanner: You know? And- 

[00:50:13] Alex Bélisle-Springer: You heard it here first. 

[00:50:13] Michelle Tanner: Yeah. And I’m actually, I’m actually really excited, which I haven’t done this before, but I’m actually really excited that, um, everyone that comes to my workshop, which will have a much sexier name than profitability once I’m done with it- … um, ’cause that’s…

Otherwise, if you keep saying that, no one’s gonna turn up. But, um, you… We- I’m actually gonna give a resource out that I’ve never given before, which took me eight years to create, which actually is a tool they can take home straight away afterwards and use that will show them things like, um, how much their business is relying on them financially behind the chair, and where their money’s- Hmm

really going. And when they buy all the, let’s say you buy all the retail products, right? We always say, “Okay, we have all this money coming in from retail revenue. Yay.” But, like, how much did you actually spend on those products going back on the shelf? And how much are you giving commission to your team?

So all… Literally I have a tool that does that all for you. You just have to put in your little numbers of what you spend, and you’ll realize, you actually see what makes you the most money in your business and, um, how much the business is relying on you. And really showing you there can be a life, um, I don’t wanna say after the chair, because everyone should have their own choice.

But just giving you, giving them the, the thought and the mindset that if, if, yeah, if you could, if financials wa- finances weren’t a topic, what would you want… W- how would your week look like? And, and how would that look? And I wanna empower them to be able to build businesses that no longer rely on them.

[00:51:33] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I absolutely adore this, and I cannot wait- … to, you know, see what people think. The light bulb moments, you know, for people coming out of your workshop come January. Um- Can’t wait … Mich- yeah. Michelle, we opened by talking about one tab, you know, that we could work through and, and close here. I hope that it feels like we achieved that.

[00:51:56] Michelle Tanner: Closed. 

[00:51:58] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Yeah.

[00:51:58] Michelle Tanner: Yes. Can we x it out there? In a, in a, in a beautiful, in a beautiful way. I, um… It was just, it felt effortless today. It did not feel like, um… Yeah, it just felt like me and you chatting, and- Yeah … it just also felt like you reminded me of, of so many… The questions you asked made me deep dive and reminded me how g- grateful I am with the life I have and the things I had to do before.

Hmm. And just got me really hyped up for the Summit, to be honest. To be around my people. To be around, um, people that wanna level up and learn also from the other people that are on stages and, and meet people and connect. I just can’t wait. 

[00:52:30] Alex Bélisle-Springer: For any- anyone listening who maybe has 15 or 30 or 50 tabs open in their own head right now about their business maybe specifically, what’s the first one you’d tell them to work at closing?

And we’ll end on that. 

[00:52:44] Michelle Tanner: Um, I would say

The tab. Okay. If you have a feeling or a thought going on all the time that, um You, you’re waiting for everything to be done and to be, to be click, ticked off to, to celebrate yourself or give yourself permission to celebrate. You’re never gonna have that feeling. You know, you’re never gonna feel like, “Okay, everything is done now.”

Maybe just the fact that, you know what? Get used to all the tabs being forever open. You’re an entrepreneur. You love it. Be okay with half-done i- you know, projects, things going to the side. It’s a beautiful, beautiful mess, but you deserve to spend time with your family, go out tonight for a drink even with these things half-finished.

‘Cause if it was all done, what would you do anyway? You’d be bored. Like, you know, crea- creating is part of the whole journey. We are creators, so be okay with the tabs. Maybe don’t close your tabs. Don’t close your tabs. Don’t close your tabs. Be okay with your, be okay with your tabs being all messy and open ’cause they’re beautiful.

[00:53:42] Alex Bélisle-Springer: I love this. Thank you so much for spending the, well, close to an hour, um- I do like to 

[00:53:48] Michelle Tanner: chat … 

[00:53:49] Alex Bélisle-Springer: on the show with me. listen, I love it. And my, the, the episodes, when we started this podcast, the episodes were around, like, 25 to 40 minutes, and now they’re more so averaging 50 minutes. And I’m like- I do … this is good.

We actually get the time to go and deep dive, and it’s fun. And I’ve really appreciated- It’s like a, it’s like a- Yeah, I’ve really appreciated, um, all the shares and all the, the deep, deep dives we’ve done today. And for anyone wanting to connect with you online before the Summit, um- Yeah … where can people do that?

Reach out to me. 

[00:54:16] Michelle Tanner: I would say, um, on my Instagram, michelletannerconsults, my website you can go check. Always reach out to me. I love people sliding into my DMs. Just come on over, voice… Send me a podcast voice message, I’m good at those, over on Instagram. So you can maybe chuck them below the, below the podcast description. But yeah, please, I love to connect. Don’t be shy. I love to meet people from all around the world. 

[00:54:40] Alex Bélisle-Springer: Thank you so much for this, Michelle. I really appreciate it.

[00:54:42] Michelle Tanner: Thank you so much. It was amazing, Alex. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. 

[00:54:47] Alex Bélisle-Springer: And just like that, the first of our pre-Summit conversations with announced speakers comes to an end.

In the next episode of The Sort, because yes, there’ll be at least a second one, maybe three, we’ll see, I’ll share more about how you can make a full trip of your stay. But for now, I’ll end on recommending you listen to the episode from mid-September titled 10 Years of the Phorest Summit, a retrospective and look at where the event is headed next.

We’re once again this year expecting over 600 salon, spa, and clinic owners at the Summit 2027. Will we see you there? Visit phorestsummit.com for all the information and of course, as always, links for everything in the show notes. And a huge thank you for tuning in. This podcast simply wouldn’t exist without your continued support and all that you bring to it through your shares, your comments, and encouragement, both as guests and listeners, and your willingness to explore what’s next for our industry.

We’ve got just under 10 more episodes to go before we call it a wrap on Season 10, and this week marks the start of what we know is an incredibly busy time for you in the industry at large. So make sure you’re following the show wherever you get your podcasts. That way you’ll be notified every single time a new episode drops.

And I’m mentioning this because our open call for submissions for the season finale is just about ready to go live, and we’d love to have it be as successful as it was last year. That said, if being featured on the podcast isn’t quite your jam yet, ’cause I won’t lose hope, and you still wanna support the show, then the most impactful thing you can do is leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

It helps us grow beyond the PhorestFM’s current audience and reach. And if we’re to explore and shape what’s next, then we need as many voices in the conversation as possible. And not just guests, including every single one of you listening too. Le keyla toma jig fas. Together, We Grow.

Related links

Learn more about Tanner Consulting

Connect with Michelle on Instagram @michelle_tanner_consult and check out her podcast, The Shift (on pause indefinitely, but still available on all podcast platforms)!

Learn more about the Phorest Summit & secure your tickets for 2027!

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