Welcome to the Salon Owner’s Podcast, Phorest FM Episode 65. Co-hosted by Killian Vigna and Zoé Bélisle-Springer, Phorest FM is a weekly show that puts forth a mix of interviews with industry thought-leaders, salon/spa marketing tips, company insights and information on attending Phorest Academy webinars. Phorest FM is produced every Monday morning for your enjoyment with a cup of coffee on your day off.
Phorest FM Episode 65
Ever wonder why you clash with colleagues sometimes? Or why you fall back to being defensive in conflictual situations? No matter how much you hire for a culture fit and work to keep it alive and well, wherever you have people with different needs and expectations, there is potential for conflict. On this episode of Phorest FM, Culture Officer Aoife Kelly-Cooney and Product Tester Elaine Heyes join Killian and Zoe on the show to discuss company culture and how, if done well, businesses can use conflict as a springboard for success.
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Killian Vigna: Welcome to the Phorest FM podcast, episode 65. I’m Killian Vigna.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: And I’m Zoe Belisle-Springer.
Killian Vigna: In this week’s episode, we are joined by two guests from the Phorest Culture Club Committee. Firstly, we’ll discuss the idea of having a designated culture officer to enhance your salon’s brand identity, and secondly, we’ll delve into the psychology of why do we defend our territory, caveman-style, in the workplace, and how to manage it effectively.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: As always, we top off the show with our upcoming Phorest Academy Webinars.
Killian Vigna: So, grab yourself a cup of coffee, sit back, relax, and join us weekly for all your salon’s business and marketing needs. Good morning Zoe.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Good morning Killian, how are you?
Killian Vigna: I am good now. First day back in the office after… now I know you’re living in Canada, but England and Ireland have got destroyed with the East from the… (laughter).
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Beast from the East?
Killian Vigna: [crosstalk 00:00:57] I can’t even say it right, storm ever. I mean like-
Zoe Belisle-Springer: How are you guys doing?
Killian Vigna: Just finally recovering.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Just about?
Killian Vigna: Shops and everything have been closed for the last four days. We finished up in the office here on Wednesday. In some places, it was up to eight-foot snow, couldn’t even see the cars. So, I’d it affected a lot of businesses, a lot of salon owners and stuff like that as well.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I saw quite a few salons close and advertise the fact that they were closing on Instagram and telling clients they’d be in contact, cause it was just impossible to get in.
Killian Vigna: It has been tough, not just salon owners, but especially a lot of small businesses, but it’s pretty much… it rained yesterday and it’s all kind of melting away already.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, that’s how it goes..!
Killian Vigna: Cool, so, what are we covering today then, Zoe?
Zoe Belisle-Springer: So, previously on the show, we had discussed the importance of employee wellness in the workplace and the pros to introducing a form of social team. This time around, we kind of want to bring up the benefits of having a culture officer in your workplace and why businesses and salons can start introducing this role to enhance brand identity and how you can actually delegate this responsibility to someone else.
On top of this, we’re gonna go into the psychology, like you said, of defending your territory, caveman-style, in the workplace and how to manage it. Today we are joined by two Phorest guests, we have a Phorest FM regular guest Aoife Kelly-Cooney, our Culture Officer here at Phorest, and Elaine Heyes, our Industry Consultant. Welcome to the show guys!
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Thank you!
Elaine Heyes: Thank you!
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Great to be here, it feels like an honour following your nomination for best podcast.
Killian Vigna: Like we just said there, Aoife, I was kind of looking through the episodes yesterday actually. You’re quite a big regular on the show, believe it or not, but-
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: It doesn’t feel like it, but again, honoured!
Killian Vigna: I was just going through the credits of each episode. You’ve done quite a few, fair play. This is Elaine’s very first one, and Elaine also works at Phorest as an industry consultant. Elaine is from the salon background, but she also user tests our software as well. Welcome for the first time, Elaine!
Elaine Heyes: Thank you, yes, I was also terrified after hearing about your award. I thought, oh god, a lot of people listen to this. I have been taking some steps this morning to practice what I preach and go over some of my relaxation techniques. Not doing too bad actually.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Fair play.
Killian Vigna: Lot of chamomile tea beforehand, yeah?
Elaine Heyes: Yeah, lot of herbal tea going on.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: So guys, I suppose to kick it all off, Aoife, what exactly is a culture officer, and why is it something that salons can introduce into their business?
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: You say, what exactly is a culture officer, and I was looking at this question earlier. I really… I think it’s very difficult to define exactly what a culture officer is, and that’s because the nature of culture is difficult to define, it’s different everywhere. What it really is, is the personality of either a company, any business, including salons as well. You know yourself, it’s the general vibe you get when you go into any business.
In Phorest, we do a very defined culture, it’s not always defined everywhere you go, but it exists everywhere you go. My role kind of, primarily, is to do an employee engagement. I work very, very closely with any new hires we have on the team to make sure that their first two weeks are spent, in their induction getting very much integrated into the team and into the culture.
Even still to this day, Ronan sits down, Ronan our CEO, sits down with all new hires to bring them through the foundations of the company and the culture from his perspective. Really, it’s very important in this day and age, because people want their values, their personal values to align with the job they do. They want their work to have meaning. That’s really it in brief I suppose.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Why and how can a salon benefit from introducing these kind of roles and responsibilities?
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Employee culture and employee engagement, it’s all linked to engagement at the end of the day. There’s different factors that influence engagement. That would be things like learning and development, leadership, teamwork, work-life balance. Once those kind of needs are met within a team, it improves employee wellbeing and employee moral massively, and that has a knock-on effect. Obviously, the happier your team are, the better the work is gonna be. The better… just kind of their teamwork, their interaction with each other, but then obviously their interaction with the client. If you’ve got a happy team, you’re gonna have a happier client.
That should, as well, have a knock-on effect in terms of your finances, it’ll increase your finances, obviously because if people are happy coming to a happy salon they’re gonna be more inclined to return and develop good relationships with your team.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: It’s also great for recruitment, people are gonna want to work with you if they see that you’ve got a great culture. It’s kind off… the benefits of having a strong culture are endless really.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: And do you have to do this yourself, as the salon owner or can you delegate this?
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: It can absolutely be delegated. I would say, personally from my experience in Phorest, I work very, very closely with our CEO Ronan. Previously, he would have done a lot of this work himself, working with the exec team, management team, but he would delegate a lot of this work to me, but I would make sure… pretty much everything I do is approved by him.
That doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. If you work in a salon and you have somebody who you know, knows your culture inside out and you trust with that, you can let them run free. It can also, of course, be the salon owner or the salon manager, or if you’ve got a bigger team or even a small team with people who actually want to get involved and are interested in this side of things, you can have a small team as well. The options are… it’s quite open.
Killian Vigna: Yeah, because we did start off, and we’ve mentioned it in previous episodes before, like a social team. As our company started growing, we realized we needed this as a full-time position, which is where you came on board with that. We know not all salons are gonna have 120 staff, but by understanding what a culture officer does, you can delegate it amongst your staff members. Even if they just did it for a month, but… it’s so effective with the recruitment process. Rather than forcing your employees to gel together, you’re hiring people who will gel together.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Exactly. You employ people, kind of for their culture fit, which is really important, cause obviously, it means that they’re gonna work very well within the team, and as we know, the team is what’s most important. People aren’t working on their own here, and I’d imagine it’s exactly the same in salons, it’s very important that everybody works together well.
Killian Vigna: Have you gotten any examples that you could provide? What we do here in Phorest that could translate over to a salon?
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Pretty much everything is transferable I suppose. An easy start would be to sit down with your team, or even yourself if you have any ideas as to what your culture might mean. I would say, don’t be vague about it. It needs to be quite defined if you’re gonna be serious. We have three strong values here, Let’s Grow, Can-do Attitude and Seirbhís Go Hiontach which is the Irish for Excellence in Service. Ronan would have sat down years ago and decided that they were the most important values for Phorest. I would say you could do something similar within the salon as a starting point.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Even, you could do different initiatives around that, you could choose a month, say for example, if one of your values was-
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Just service, I mean service has to be…
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Exactly. Again, you could pull that one, excellent service and say to your team, “This month, what are we gonna do?” We’re gonna choose maybe three small projects that we can work together to really drive this value.
It just gets people on board with it. I’d say, if a salon owner or manager can come up with these values themselves, but it might be a good idea to get everybody together and to really see what the values are as a team. Cause that will really get people behind it, rather than telling people “this is what we are” it’s great to have an ask-first culture, so to ask people, “what do you feel your values are within the salon?”
Killian Vigna: I think it’s a great idea. Not only it’s like, how can we make our team, I suppose more unified professionally, but also personally as well. You actually do… I know you’re working with these guys every day, but when you’re in a work environment you don’t really get to know each other’s backgrounds, especially as your salon grows and you start hiring more people. That’s where you do the culture club as well, that’s all about, how do we bring all of our staff together, including remote guys.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Exactly. That’s our priority at the moment in Phorest, because we’re growing the team quite rapidly, and our international growth’s kind of the main thing at the moment. Our remote team is really growing. That was Ronan’s priority this year, he wanted the culture club to focus on remote engagement, which is as you can imagine, quite a challenge, cause these are people that you don’t see on a daily basis.
Killian Vigna: If it wasn’t for such a focus on remote, we wouldn’t even have Elaine on the show today, because Elaine is remote… you’re based over the the UK, Elaine aren’t you?
Elaine Heyes: I am, yes. Sometimes it is difficult being remote. Also to… not working full time for Phorest either. I just want to say that I think I’ve been with Phorest for two and a half years now, and I’ve always had a really good feeling. Aoife was actually the first lady I spoke to after about eight months of working with Phorest, I was like, “Oh wow there’s a woman in there!” Cause I mostly worked with the dev team and she made me feel really, really welcome.
I think that Phorest does have such a great atmosphere. Looking at it from a sort of outside point of view, and being remote as well. You guys do make a big effort, particularly when it comes to Christmas and Valentine’s Day and things. You really help to bring everyone together and it’s a really good vibe I think.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Thanks, Elaine.
Killian Vigna: That does come down to the culture officer and the culture club and kind of unifying and gelling. We were actually in a culture club meeting one day and… it was Valentine’s wasn’t it, we were trying to come up with-
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Yes.
Killian Vigna: Trying to come up with something new. Elaine, who I don’t think I’ve ever met Elaine or spoke to Elaine, was involved in the group and just kind of Slack’ed in, which is like a WhatsApp version for companies, saying that she had done… you’re gonna have to explain this, but you made a thousand cranes, was it, Elaine?
Elaine Heyes: I did, I made a thousand… I folded a thousand origami cranes. It was just kind of one of those things that was on my bucket list. It was really cheep to do and it was something easy. I thought it was easy, I’m like, it sounds really simple, but actually, it was a bigger job than I thought. Now I’ve realized, I don’t know a thousand people. Yes, it was a good project, I learned a lot of lessons from doing that. It was lovely to be able to kick it off on Valentine’s Day, so I was able to send everyone one.
Killian Vigna: Yeah, so like that, you made… it was 120 staff members you made a personalized origami crane for all 120 staff members with a little note and why you were doing a thousand cranes. That’s where I was kind of like, why are you doing this? I was trying to find out a bit more about you then. You’re actually… you’re our user tester for software on a consultancy basis. You come from the salon industry, but at the moment you’re also studying counselling and you’re into your origami and things like those and relaxation and meditation. We kind of got chatting, it was myself, you and Aoife at the time, got chatting. You were talking about defending territory in the workplace. The way you described it-
Elaine Heyes: It was just something I was working on.
Killian Vigna: The way you described it, we were like, we have to, first off get you to write a blog about this, and second off get you on the show to talk about it as well, because you have that mix from the tech side of Phorest, working in the salon for the last five, six years, was it? What is your actual, if you want to share it with our audience, your background?
Elaine Heyes: I worked as a software tester for 12 years in an office and then, it was more personal circumstances, I decided to have a bit of a career change. I wanted to… even though I loved testing, one of the things that I didn’t love was the fact that I didn’t really connect with the end-user as such. I wanted a job where I was connected more with people. Obviously some other things as well… I’ve gone down a sort of more holistic route. I started off with massage and now I did reiki meditation. I was kind of becoming a bit more spiritual, I guess. But then the geek side of me said, I think I need a bit of science here. That’s when I decided to start looking at counselling courses so that I could blend the two together.
I found one that I really liked called the Human-Givens approach. It’s based on… the foundation of it is based on our human needs, everybody has these human needs. I think they’re important as well, just for… going back to the culture thing as well, one of the human needs that we have is to feel connected to each other and also to be part of something that’s bigger than ourselves, in this case, it would be our workplace.
That’s another reason why it’s really important to have these culture things in the workplace. It not only brings people together, but it actually serves their needs as a human being.
Killian Vigna: What is… the way you were describing it, we couldn’t stop laughing because it was between you and our head of product, Paddy, and you were kind of saying, you’ve got the emotional brain and the thinking brain but you’ve also got feminine and masculine… there was a couple of factors. What exactly is it when you’re saying “defending our territory”?
Elaine Heyes: Basically, if we look at territory as our needs, so your territory is like… think about it as your job role, like the sales department or for me would be the test department, that’s my territory. Within my job role, I have certain needs, like for testing, I have the need to make sure that the salon software is a good quality, high quality. That’s my main need in my job role.
Obviously, when I go to Paddy, who’s in charge of the product, and his main need, obviously is more along the lines of getting the product out on time in a budget, I know he has a lot more responsibility than that, but let’s just keep it simple. Obviously, whereas I care about quality, I don’t care what the budget is, I don’t really care if we go over time a little bit, that’s okay for me. But obviously, that’s not okay for him. It’s about how we meet in the middle and come to a reasonable compromise, because if we didn’t do that, then I’m sure as you can imagine, nothing would ever happen.
Paddy on one side would be trying to put something out that’s as cheap as possible and as quickly as possible, but obviously over time that could mean that the software quality degrades because there’s no one to stop him. The same for me as well, as a tester, we would never get anything done either because we’d be constantly going, you can’t put it out because it’s not good enough quality. We would never produce anything either.
It’s sort of an example of how we need to recognize that we all have our needs and that we all have a function within the company and everybody’s job matters. It doesn’t matter who you are in the company, if your role didn’t exist, the company, that part of the company would collapse. Eventually, it could be detrimental to the company as a whole, even if you feel like your job role isn’t that important, it really is cause you’re part of something bigger. It’s about everybody realizing that we all have our own needs and we all… we’re all just as important as each other, but it’s also about knowing that we have to work together, it’s a sort of symbiosis of a lot of things coming together, so we need to make sure that all of our needs are satisfied.
I think when we go into conflict, we need to… first of all, we need to calm ourselves down, because as you said Killian, we have two brains, we have the emotional brain, which is in charge of our safety, but this is a very primitive thing, it’s been there since caveman-style days when we used to be hunter-gatherers. This is for our absolute safety because it’s so important it has the capacity to take over the whole brain and shut down your other part of your brain which is your thinking brain. This is what applies logic to things and reasoning and it decides what’s fair and what’s not fair and all the things that make you human.
What happens, if we get too emotional, so if we’re in conflict and we get really upset with someone and we’re angry with them because we feel that our needs are not being met. Unfortunately, our thinking brain can then shut down and then we stop communicating and we stop thinking about things logically, in terms of am I getting my needs met? Or why is this person doing what they’re doing?
It’s about sort of… how we resolve the conflict is, first of all, we need to calm down, taking deep breaths, doing some relaxation. If you need to walk away from that person and say “I’ll get back to you later,” then, just once you calmed down, stop and think, stop and reason with yourself and say, what is it that person is trying to achieve from their point of view? What needs do they need to satisfy to complete their job and is that why we’re in conflict? It’s not, don’t take it personally, it’s not that they don’t like you or anything like that. It’s because they’re trying to achieve their goals, you’re trying to achieve your goals from your job role, and sometimes you will have a lot of overlap, because like I said… this is the same in the salon as well, sometimes you will have clients booked in, say back to back and you may feel that the business hasn’t taken your needs into account because they’ve not given you enough time with the clients to turn clients around properly.
I did see this quite a lot in the spa where I worked, this became a bit of an issue because we… it’s kind of exactly the same as the office, to be honest, we as therapists, our main focus and our main job role is to make sure that we’re giving clients really good quality service, but obviously, the business cares more about the profits and that side of things because the people who are in charge of that, that’s their job role.
It causes exactly the same conflict as it does in the office in the salon. Again, it’s the same treatment at the end of the day. You need to get yourself into a calm space. It’d be nice if everyone could maybe sit down with a cup of tea and say, okay what does everyone need to get out of this conflict? What does everyone need to have to resolve this conflict, what needs need to be met, and let’s get everybody’s needs met. When we do that, then we can resolve the conflict in a nice, calm manner and we’ve still got all our relationships intact.
It also helps to stop, I think, the, them and us attitude that you sometimes get between departments. I’ve seen this in offices and in salons as well. I think anything that can help to get us out of that place is a good thing.
Killian Vigna: That’s very good, I actually had a few questions, but you pretty much answered them all there. I just wanted to reiterate that, it’s not about someone being irrational for the sake of being irrational. It is purely the fact that they’re protecting their territory and their territory is their job role. Like you were saying, it’s the best example that I can see, is you and Paddy. One person needs… they’ve got times, they’ve got budget restraints, but then there you where we need quality. So it’s not people you’re clashing with, it’s actually the job role, and that’s what you need to learn to take into account here.
Elaine Heyes: Yes it is. It’s all about the job role, it’s not a personal thing. The other thing I did forget to mention there was obviously, the different styles as well. Men and women have different approaches to this. Again, it comes from the caveman days. Men sort of, if you think about it in that kind of respect from the caveman, men would defend their territory, they’ve been given the natural gift of strength. They’re stronger so they will use a more aggressive outward approach, whereas women weren’t given that gift, we were given the gift of being able to do things like read body language and things like that and to work more on our instincts because we don’t have the same physical strength. We’re protectors, we’re more maternal.
You have to acknowledge as well that, if someone… if there is a male being slightly aggressive, it’s not… it’s just the way we’re built. Or if you feel like a woman’s getting over emotional or she’s withdrawing or she’s avoiding, these are all protection mechanisms. We need to just be aware of that as well.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I’m trying to tie it back into culture at the same time. Is this something that, these conflicts that shouldn’t necessarily… they’re not between people, they’re actually just between how things work within the company. Is it something that a culture officer can facilitate?
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: I think it would be mainly communication, because obviously if there’s conflict and things, that’s generally gonna come down to the person who is involved in the conflict and probably their manager. There’d probably be certain boundaries that I wouldn’t be crossing, but all you can really do… that knowledge that Elaine just gave us is absolutely invaluable. People would never really think in those terms, I don’t think. Communicating that to the team would be fantastic, cause then at least people can see it from the different perspective and take a step back and say, hang on a second, the conflict is not actually personal, it’s based on these more primitive needs.
It’s definitely a really interesting way to kind of navigate conflict in the workplace, definitely.
Killian Vigna: See, it does complement your culture in a way, because how many times have you been in a heated argument with a colleague, but you would literally walk straight upstairs and have a chat with a coffee. It’s not them you’re arguing… those kind of come back down to who you’ve hired. If you hire based on culture and value fits and stuff like that and all your staff are people that gel together, an argument is literally just of getting something done. It’s not of a personal clash. You never see anyone walk out of a meeting room and just not talk to the person that was in there for the rest of the day. No, they go straight upstairs to chat away. It’s in the moment things. And you know what, sometimes you have to have those arguments to meet halfway. Like Elaine was saying, you can’t have one person who’s just completely on the other end of the seesaw, you have to meet in the middle eventually.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: I think that’s definitely true if you are somebody who hires with a strong focus on culture fit… I’d say a lot of places are at the stage where there’s probably people there who really aren’t a great culture fit, and that can be difficult to navigate, I’d say. Cause there probably will be people who would walk away and they wouldn’t want to talk to that person for a week, so there’d be a frosty atmosphere.
We’re lucky we don’t have that here, but I can see why this would be really valuable to people to be like, this is why this is going on.
Killian Vigna: It’s just a different mindset. It’s a whole different approach of looking at arguments.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: It makes it a lot clearer.
Killian Vigna: Especially when you’re at work, you think your argument’s personal, but it’s not, your literally just arguing at the department, I suppose.
Elaine Heyes: You’re not giving your place or something, it’s normal. I think it’s, maybe you sit down and you say, did you know that as part of my job role, it’s my need to… like I just said, as a tester my main need is to make sure the software is of great quality. If you’re doing something that clashes with my need, that’s where we need to meet in the middle. Sometimes I think, I don’t know, maybe as a culture, we should so a sort of presentation to say, each department can say, what are our needs? Then everybody kind of knows and they might have a bit more of an understanding.
Killian Vigna: Now all of a sudden this podcast has turned into solving Phorest’s [inaudible].
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: That’s a good point, we should talk afterwards.
Killian Vigna: I suppose, just again to reiterate, in the salon, just always have the mindset of, if your clashing with someone, is it actually a personal clash or are you arguing because of conflict of roles. That’s absolutely been brilliant from both Aoife and Elaine. What are the next steps if a salon owner was interested in kind of introducing a culture club or sharing the culture officer responsibilities to the staff?
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: I’d say whether that be the manager or the owner or somebody specific within the team who would be very much interested in this side of things, sit down, have a good think about what your salon’s, I suppose, mission is. What you think the personality and brand of your salon is and what values would align with that. How you could create very specific cultural goals based on that. I’d say that’d be the first thing I would do, sit down, have a think about what your salon is looking to do and how culture could help get you there. A really strong defined culture.
Killian Vigna: Cool, and Elaine, if stuff does get heated then, what advice do you have for salon owners to make sure that all of their staff are aware of, it’s a territory that they’re protecting?
Elaine Heyes: I think the first thing is to always make sure everybody calms down, because if you’re taking from your emotional brain it means your actually closed off, so your not listening what other people are saying, You’re just stuck in your emotional state.
The first thing is to, I don’t know maybe do a group meditation or something. Or you can just go back what you’re doing, take some deep breaths, have some time out, have a space where you can do that. First of all, everyone needs to calm down and switch on their thinking brain. This is where we can now start to add reason and we can now stand back and go, okay what does everyone need to resolve this conflict? Go around the table and ask everyone, what do you need as part of your job role that will help you solve this conflict?
One of the other little tricks that I’ve learned on my course… and I might start introducing it more on Slack, I think, is to apparently use “I” statements. So, you say, “I’m very upset that such a thing hasn’t been done,” for example, but you don’t say, “you should do this” or “you should have done that” just say, I’m upset that this hasn’t happened and leave it. What your doing there is, you are giving the other person control of if they want to solve it or not. You’re not trying to do it for them. It’s up to them to take control, take responsibility and if they need to take action, then it’s up to them to do that.
Killian Vigna: That’s very interesting, I’m definitely going to use that one.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I use that one, definitely as well.
Killian Vigna: And all three of us started that off with “I.” Well, listen Aoife, Elaine, thanks a million for joining us on the show today. This was brilliant.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: Pleasure.
Killian Vigna: It was nice to dig right into it and see why do we do this stuff and I suppose how can we nip it in the bud from the start, but how do we I suppose, prevent it from happening in the future.
Aoife Kelly-Cooney: I’d say as well, just as a final note, have fun with it. It’s a great element to any business, so have a bit of craic and good luck!
Killian Vigna: For the second part of our show, Zoe, it’s over to you.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, so for the Phorest Academy Webinars, we have coming up on March 12th, the Salon Owner’s Introduction to GDPR’s, so we’ve been running a few GDPR masterclasses with Connor Keppel, our Head of Marketing, and so he will be running a third one on March 12th, 10 am to 11 am, the same time as the other ones were one-
Killian Vigna: They’re having a massive response at the moment.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yes, absolutely.
Killian Vigna: He ended up an extra, what was it? A 50-minute webinar turned into an hour and a half the other day?
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I think something like that, it’s definitely one to jump on, there’s always a Q and A session at the end and he’s happy to stay as long as you guys have questions. If any of you guys tuning in today are in New York, we are at IBS New York and if you would like to come and chat with us to discover the features that Phorest has to offer, we’re on stand 2324, at International Beauty Show New York.
That’s it for us today, if you have any feedback, as always, feel free to leave us a review on iTunes, or on Stitcher. We’re always looking for suggestions on how to improve the show. Otherwise, we wish you a wonderful week, we’ll catch you next Monday.
Killian Vigna: All the best.
Thanks for reading!