Welcome to the Salon Owners Podcast, Phorest FM Episode 96. Co-hosted by Killian Vigna and Zoé Bélisle-Springer, Phorest FM is a weekly show that puts forth a mix of interviews with industry thought-leaders, salon/spa marketing tips, company insights and information on attending Phorest events and webinars. A new Phorest FM episode airs every Monday morning for your enjoyment with a cup of coffee on your day off.

Phorest FM Episode 96

You might remember Louis Grenier from past Phorest FM episodes “The Art Of Effective Marketing Focus” and “Humanising Your Brand Through Marketing.” Back on the show for episode 96, Louis discusses customer feedback: how to get it, use it, but more importantly, what to ask and not to ask. TL;DR, you cannot afford not asking for feedback. The more the feedback, the better the client experience.



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Killian Vigna: Welcome to the Phorest FM Podcast, episode 96. I’m Killian Vigna.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And I’m Zoe Belisle-Springer. In this week’s episode, we’re talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly side of customer feedback. Why you should pay less attention to praise, and how to turn negative feedback into a positive, and make your business really stand out. As always we’ll top off the show with our latest announcements and upcoming Phorest Academy Webinars.

Killian Vigna: So grab yourself a cup of coffee, sit back, relax, and join us weekly for all your salon’s business and marketing needs. Good morning, Zoe.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Good morning, Killian. This week, all about customer feedback.

Killian Vigna: Customer feedback, yeah, yeah. So basically this show’s going to be all about why it’s so important to ask your customers for feedback. And we’re not just talking about going and asking your most loyal clients who are going to always big-up your ego and talk about how great your salon is. No. We’re talking about why-

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Although it is nice.

Killian Vigna: It is nice. It is great. But basically what we’re going to focus on here is why feedback shouldn’t always be full of praise. That’s kind of where the good, the bad, and the ugly is going to come into it. But we’re pretty sure most of you out there are doing a great job of it anyway, so not to worry about that.

So, some of you may remember today’s guest from past episodes such as Humanising Your Brand Through Marketing and The Art of Effective Marketing Focus. Or, for regular podcast listeners, you’ve probably come across Everyone Hates Marketers: The No-Fluff Actionable Marketing Podcast. That’s a real big-up there. So that’s some good customer feedback for our guest today, Louis Grenier. So welcome back to Phorest FM, Louis!

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Welcome back.

Louis Grenier: Bonjour, bonjour. Thank you. Thanks for having me again!

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Good to have you.

Killian Vigna: “Bonjour, bonjour.” I love how you always start with “bonjour, bonjour.” Even when we were emailing him, the very first emails were, “bonjour, bonjour.”

Louis Grenier: Yeah, I can’t forget where I’m coming from, you know?

Killian Vigna: Just makes it sound so smooth. It really eases us into it, doesn’t it? Cool. So, Louis, let’s kick it off. What do we mean by feedback? What are we talking about here? Are we talking about testimonials, are we talking about reviews that we see on the likes of Google, Facebook, Yelp?

Louis Grenier: To put it simply, it’s about what people think. That’s as simple as it is. Feedback should be about people telling you what they think about your business, about you, about what you should improve, about what is great that you should do more of. And so whatever the channel, whatever the format, that’s what customer feedback is.

So you mentioned online reviews, that’s one form of feedback. Talking directly to someone, one of your customers, that’s feedback. Talking to a group of people, that’s feedback. Sending a survey and getting answers, that’s also feedback. So it doesn’t really matter the channel or the format, as long as you’re listening to what people have to say.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Well, do you think there is stigma, then, associated with this? You know, expecting the worst or finding it hard to accept… even when it’s good, do you find… I know you’ve worked a lot in that sphere. I remember you even working on the Phorest website and gathering feedback. How do you feel about that?

Louis Grenier: So that’s a very leading question, right? One of the things not to do when we send a survey is to send this kind of question. It’s good for conversations like this, because that actually triggers me to talk about it, but the reason why I say it’s leading is that we assume that there might be stigma, even though there might not be.

So I never really saw customer feedback or feedback as a negative thing, me, personally. And then I can say for the business in general, why it’s helpful. I don’t think people rely enough on feedback and they think they know enough, or they may be a bit scared of getting feedback from customers because that could be painful sometimes.

Some people might have imposter syndrome, like feeling like they’re a fraud and therefore people telling them what they could improve might trigger them to go within their shell and not get out. And others are scared of asking. I mean, at the end of the day you cannot not afford… you cannot afford… no, hold on a second. The double negative thing is throwing me off here. You can’t afford not to ask for feedback. Right?

And the reason why I said that is we did this… at Hotjar, which is the company I work for, even though my podcast is Everyone Hates Marketers, that’s a side project… but anyway, at Hotjar we did a customer experience study recently. And one of the key learning was that customer feedback is the number one driver of successful companies, specifically the ones that really deliver an outstanding customer experience. And the better the customer experience they deliver, the more customer feedback is the number one driver of that.

So that means for any salons out there, even the small ones, that might be delivering a great experience already, if you listen to more feedback, if you ask for more feedback, you will get better. And for the ones who are not there yet, if you start listening to good customer feedback, and we’ll explain how to get that in the next few minutes, then you will also improve. Because that’s just empathy, right? It’s just you connect with people, they tell you stuff, you improve. And that’s how it works.

Killian Vigna: So you’re saying there feedback is the number one driver. You’ve proved that with Hotjar. But sometimes feedback can be biased. It can be based on our moods or our past experiences. So is it sometimes a good idea or even better to ignore feedback? How do we deal with that? Or do we take all feedback on board?

Louis Grenier: So it’s a tricky question, because there are always reasons behind people telling you what they think. And they might phrase it in a weird way, they might phrase it in an angry way, they might be moody and they might tell you something that is kind of harsh. But at the end of the day, there is always a reason behind this thinking, right?

So customers going to your salon might be in a mood when they go to your salon. So you can’t control that. Customers going to your salon might not exactly fit your personas, the type of people you want in. I mean, you need to listen to that type of feedback in order to understand your business better.

And so I guess the way to process feedback in general, and as general advice, is really to understand why. To ask why. So if you have the luxury or the chance to talk to someone directly and they tell you, listen, “I hate your salon. I can’t deal with it. There’s too much delay. I’m always waiting an hour to be treated, and all of that. I’m going to leave.” That’s actually a very, very good way to get your customer back and offer an outstanding experience so that they will come back and they will even bring their friends.

And the way to do that is just asking why. The reason why they tell you is that they care, and they care so that you can ask more questions. So you can say, why? Why is that happening? Why is it so frustrating for you? “Well, because I come back from work and I have an appointment at 6:00. I don’t want to wait till 7:00; I have to go see my kids.” “Okay, I get that.”

So you start to empathise a bit more and you say, hey, hold on a second. What if we offer something for those busy people who are just off work and have just an hour slot in their day to go to a salon? Why don’t we create, I don’t know, a prioritised track that only those people are allowed to take appointments during this hour? So it’s the after-work slot and there will never be any delay or it’s your money back.

You can already start thinking of [inaudible] conversation about these type of ideas. So you shouldn’t take feedback personally, for sure. You should really try to dissociate yourself from what they tell you about your business and what it is about yourself; it’s never about yourself, it’s always about the business. And you should dig deeper into the why behind all of that. And there’s always a good reason.

And even if you think this person is “emotional” or not rational, well, that’s the way they think and you can’t control that. What you can control is the way you react to it.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Fair enough. Well, how do you feel about then saying, the customer’s always right?

Killian Vigna: The classic.

Louis Grenier: Yeah. So I have a good answer for that. I’ve been thinking about that a lot, because in marketing people… can I curse on this podcast, within reason?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: I mean, you’ve done it before.

Louis Grenier: No, all right. In marketing there’s also this phrase, right, that is being said a lot, which I cannot stand it. And it’s about, yeah, the customer’s always right. Or the opposite, which is… you know, Henry Ford said, if we had asked a customer, they would have asked for faster horses, right, instead of a car. So therefore you shouldn’t listen to customers because they don’t have a clue.

So it’s really about, once again, that if people tell you what they think, that’s the way they think. And thinking that you shouldn’t ask them anything because they won’t know anything is the wrong way to think about it. Purely because it’s never about what they think you should be doing; it’s about the root cause of the problem. So as I mentioned before, it’s not because a customer will tell you, oh, we want this. You really need to change this. You need to change the colour of your chairs, or whatever. You need to listen. However, the underlying problem they’re trying to tell you is what you need to understand, so that you, yourself, can come up with a solution or innovation.

So for the Henry Ford quote, instead of asking customers what do you want, they’re only thinking of their own world, and so yes they would ask for faster horses. But if you ask them, “what is the biggest pain point in your life today, what are you struggling the most with,” they might say, “it takes me eight hours to go from point A to point B to be with my mom.” Now that you know that, you might innovate and try to think of a solution for this problem, right?

So that’s the answer to the opposite of it. Now, is the customer always right? Not if you consider solutions. If they just tell you, you should be doing that and you should be doing that, no, that’s up to you to decide. But the problems that they suffer from, the problems that they think they have from their perspective, is always right. Because that’s how they feel.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Right. That makes sense. But then it illustrates then that it’s really about asking the right question or the good question to get to that underlying reason of why they’re leaving X or Y comment or thought.

Louis Grenier: Yeah. So it’s about I think more than just asking the right question; it’s really about being curious. So let’s say you’re speaking with a friend at a café, or having a pint if you’re back in Dublin someday, Zoe. And you ask them, what’s going on in your life? And they might start to say, “oh, I don’t really enjoy myself at the minute; I’m really struggling at work.” If you just move on to another topic and say, “Oh, okay, cool. And how about personal life, how is it going?” That’s not the normal way to have a conversation with someone, right?

So for feedback it’s the same thing. If they start telling you something that they have in their mind and that they feel in their heart, then you just need to keep asking. So if they say, you know,

“I don’t really like going to this salon anymore.”

“Okay, why? What’s happening?”

“Well, I don’t know if I should say, but I don’t like the staff too much anymore.”

“Okay, what do you mean? Can you tell me more?”

“Well, actually, there’s one person in the staff I can’t really stand. They’re being very mean to me.”

Or whatever it is, right? So by just being curious and asking the right question, which is always why. Why, why, why. You can drill into the deeper problems that you can solve.

And another thing I want to say before we move on to maybe some more practical tips is the fact that you shouldn’t necessarily listen to everyone. And that’s difficult to do at the very start of your business. But if you have an established business or even a business that is already making some good money, you should try to listen to the right customers, to the right type of customers. Ideally the customer that you care about the most. So if your salon caters to working moms in particular, you know you have a sweet spot for them and they’re very good for you, maybe you shouldn’t really listen to people outside of that.

You should listen if they speak to you, right? You shouldn’t say, sorry I don’t care about what you have to say. Because they might have friends that fit the demographic. On the other hand, you might not put as much weight from the conversation you have with them or the feedback they give you than a working mom that fits exactly your demographic, fits exactly your persona. And that’s because obviously you can’t have a business for everyone. If you have a business for everyone, then you have a business for no one.

So if you have really a good understanding of your ideal customers, who they are, that should solidify the type of feedback you should get from who. And that should allow you to get the right type of feedback, the good and the bad feedback, and process it better so you can improve your business.

Killian Vigna: So it’s almost like saying, rather than just having a general feedback form, you know, the typical questions, how did you find your experience today. It’s almost like tailoring it to… you essentially have to find what are your business objectives and get feedback based on those objectives. Because people are always going to give you feedback based on what they think, but if they don’t align with how you want to drive your business, then it’s almost irrelevant, isn’t it?

Louis Grenier: Well, as long as it comes from the right type of customer then it’s okay to get feedback all the time, right? You should have the pulse of your market, right? Which means that you should be able to get feedback and collect feedback on a daily basis and have your staff being open to hearing recommendations and hearing feedback. Or have on your website a small widget that enables you to collect feedback on the go. Or on social media to just keep listening to what people have to say.

You shouldn’t ever close your eyes, your ears to that, because there might be nuggets of information that you would have never guessed otherwise. You don’t know what you don’t know. On the other hand, you’re right, if you really want to improve something specifically… just take the example of let’s say improving your website… then it makes total sense to ask questions that are very targeted towards that, so that you get the right answer when you have an issue that you want to solve. But both are very relevant and I don’t think you should do one or the other.

Killian Vigna: So we’ve structured our feedback; we know we want to get actionable feedback that will help us improve our business. But what stops us falling into the trap of, right, I want to find out feedback that I can help improve my business, but as I’m doing the feedback I constantly fall into the loop of just trying to hear good things. What percentage should I be looking at towards positive and negative feedback?

Louis Grenier: So I can’t give you a percentage. What I can give you is that you cannot control the bad or the good feedback, because it’s just feedback. So it’s the way you see that is bad or good. To me, bad feedback, which is something like, oh, I hate that, is just an opportunity to improve. It sounds a bit cliché, but it’s true. They are gifting you with feedback that a lot of people are not willing to tell you, because they really don’t care.

So they care enough to tell you something that could be bad in your eyes, but it’s just an opportunity for you to improve. So for good feedback it’s the same thing. Okay, it’s good, your business is going well, they’re happy with it. What can you do to wow them even more? To impress them even more? How can you do to double down on that?

So both negative and positive feedback, good and bad, is the same thing. And then it’s just an opportunity to improve. And if you’re actively shielding yourself from “bad” feedback, I have bad news for you. I’m not going to say what the bad news is, but it’s bad news.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. Well, okay, let’s get you thinking creatively. Let’s get into more I suppose actionable things. Let’s say I’m a salon owner or spa owner and I want to improve on a few things. We’ll give you a few scenarios. Like say, for instance, customer service. What’s a good example of a good question to ask a client? Say, I don’t know, Killian was my client. What’s a bad example of asking that to be able to improve then on customer service?

Louis Grenier: So generally speaking, we’ll take for this type of use case is I think the easiest way is to think really from a survey perspective, because you can see the survey written. And you can send an email. I suppose in Phorest you can do that. Send an email, ask for their feedback. You can obviously tweak that for normal conversations, because some of them might sound a bit more unpractical. But if you want to improve customer service, I would start by saying: “How would you rate our customer service? Including everything, like from the reception to the treatment itself. From 0 to 10. 0 being super bad, 10 being super good.”

So they should answer that. And then, and this is when the magic happens, is the follow-up question. So you ask them to rate and then you ask them why. What’s the main reason for your score. And I would even add something like, please be 100 percent honest. We love feedback. Something like that. That’s it. And so that goes back to what I was saying at the start. The why behind all of that.

So, yeah, you can get a score if you want. Oh, we have a 9.7. Oh, good. But so what? So you ask them for a score and then you ask them for the follow-up. And you really make sure that they can tell you anything they want. Anything that they have in their heart.

Another good reason to start with a score is that it leverages the foot-in-the-door principle, which is basically the fact that if someone does something small for you, they’re more likely to do something bigger afterwards. So if you ask them to rate on a score, it’s very easy action; it’s one click or it’s one word to use. Then they will be more likely to tell you more about what they felt.

Killian Vigna: Cool. So let’s say a client did have a problem with a treatment then. How would you go about that one?

Louis Grenier: I would handle it like a normal conversation. Can you tell me more about this problem? Exactly how did you feel about it? And how would you solve it if you were me? Something like that. So first question would be, how bad was it? Describe it in detail so that you know exactly what’s the root cause. And then I would probably ask them, how would you solve it?

Killian Vigna: But see, if the treatment was really bad, would there be a fear of trying to dig into the issue?

Louis Grenier: Yeah, but if you don’t dig into the issue, you’re never going to solve it and you’re going to lose money.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, absolutely. What about showcasing… I don’t know, you’re building some sort of leaflet or something like that and you’re trying to get feedback to be able to showcase a strength, maybe get a testimonial out of someone. How do you go about asking for that?

Louis Grenier: Well, I think there are good times to ask for praises. And that’s one of the good use cases, right? In your marketing you want to make sure that you have a strong value proposition, which is a very strong message that is simple enough for people to understand. Give them the main reason why they should come to your business, to your salon and not someone else’s.

So in this instance I would ask, in particular your happy customers, people who come back all the time: “What do you like the most about our salon? And please be 100 percent honest as well and describe that with as many details as possible. Try to be super detailed in your answer.”

And what you do this way is that not only do you get people who know their stuff, because they know your salon very well, to answer that. You also naturally select your core customer persona, your core ideal customers. And so by asking them what they like the most, you will see a pattern that you can reuse in your marketing to attract more of them. Because you don’t want everyone, right? You want only the right type of customer.

So by simply asking that question, which I’m going to repeat, which is: “What do you like the most about our business? What’s the one thing that you really like the most about our business, that makes you coming back? Please be super detailed in your answer.” That should give this answer.

Killian Vigna: So would you use your ideal customer then also to improve a service or a treatment? Or even if you had a new service or treatment, or say a new staff member who you are training up, would you use your ideal customer then? Or would you use someone who has never come in to your salon?

Louis Grenier: I mean, if you had to do one thing, I will always focus on your ideal customers and your happy customers. Because they know more. However, word of mouth is also very important. And in a different industry, at Hotjar we know that as well. So we have specific customer personas that are very targeted towards e-commerce and subscription companies. But we also understand the power that… it’s not because I work in software that all of my friends work in software. Very much like it’s not because I’m a working mom that all of my friends are going to be working moms. So if you deliver a good experience for every one of them, if they come to your salon, they might speak to others and therefore that might attract your ideal customers.

But that’s really if you have the luxury to do that in your marketing and stuff like that. And most of the time what I see happening is you need to really focus on your happy customers. They will attract more people like them. And feedback should be a bit the same.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And how do you go about, say if you wanted to learn a bit more about your competitors around town, to see what you could do better or to see what you could do more of or even something that no one’s doing in your area?

Louis Grenier: That’s also a very good use case of feedback. So let’s say someone enters a salon for the first time and they just received a treatment, they’re about to leave. You can ask them to give you feedback and say, “Hey, just hold on a second,” or something to this effect. “Did you look at any other salons before coming here? Yes or no? So if they say yeah … and, once again, asking the question I would say, did you look at any other salon? Don’t be afraid to tell me the truth. I won’t be offended; seriously I’m just very curious.”

Okay, so you didn’t look at any salon. Okay, why not? And then they could say something like, well, because I had no other choice. I searched on Google; you were the only one. Or they say, well, a friend of mine told me that I should come by here and I didn’t want to be searching for hours. But if they say yes, then this is when you can ask, okay, “Why did you pick us instead of the others? What was your choice behind that?” And that should help you with your marketing as well.

Having said that, you can go a bit deeper than that. Because there is a concept in marketing that is around direct competitors versus indirect competitors or alternatives. So you might think you compete with other salons, but you actually don’t; you also compete with all of the other alternatives out there. So if your salon is mainly made around the idea of relaxation, like let’s say massage and all of that, just an example, you might not only compete against other salons doing the same. You might compete against running in the park. You might compete against staying on your sofa watching TV. Because that’s how other people relax.

So in your question you can ask something like that. If you know that relaxing is the core value proposition and the core reason why they come, you ask them, “Did you consider anything else to relax beside going to our salon?” And then in your marketing this is what you compete against. It’s not necessarily against your other salons, but against what other alternatives they might have.

And I’ll just finish with this thought, the fact that sometimes you compete against nothing. Meaning that you have to convince people to do something instead of planning to do nothing. As I said, a good alternative to going to the salon to get a massage might be just to ask your husband or your wife to give you a massage, right? So this is the kind of stuff you compete against in marketing. And so I wouldn’t overly obsess over competitors directly, because you might be surprised; your biggest competitor might not be what you think it is.

Killian Vigna: I really like that because that’s taking it back to look at outside your industry again, so it’s not always, right, I’m a hair salon. I gotta see what other hair salons are doing. It’s, what are other people… I can’t beat that relaxation example, actually. That was just a really good one.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And I suppose my last one, and maybe Killian you have another one after, but the other one that comes to my mind kind of relates to what Hotjar does. You can kind of see heat maps and stuff of where people are going onto websites. If you don’t have the means to use a tool like that, how can you even know where to start on improving a website?

Louis Grenier: So take five of your happy customers, people you’re close to… you probably have at least five… and just ask them, you know, I give you a treatment for free if you spend 10 minutes with me and we just go through our website together. You put them in front of the screen, you sit back, and you watch them do what you think is easy to do. Such as, can you Google treatment again for me. And then oh, yeah, where’s the Book Now button again. Oh, yeah, it’s there. Okay. But why do you ask for these card details at this stage, et cetera, et cetera.

So if you don’t have money for feedback, that’s not a problem at all. Just talk to people and make them do what you want them to do in front of you. If it’s for a website, then you show them the website. If it’s for a marketing poster, show them the marketing poster. If it’s for the inside of your salon, show them the inside of your salon. That’s what I would say.

I will say something else, though. It’s a plug because I have to plug it, because actually the question implies it. Hotjar is free forever, if you need to, right? So you don’t need to pay for it to have a way to listen to customer feedback on your website.

Killian Vigna: All in all, they always say, it should be easy enough for a child to navigate around, isn’t it? It should be nice and simple. You shouldn’t have to question where you’re going to find what you want on a website.

Louis Grenier: Yeah. There are plenty of principles like this, right? Make it easy and all of that. I’m afraid of spending too much time on that, because it might vary. I might say something like keep your navigation simple, but in fact it might work better if it’s very complex for certain type of people. The best thing I can really say is, if you spend time with your happy customers or people that fit your ideal customer, looking at your website with you and performing actions with you and listening for feedback, you will improve your website. But it’s difficult for me to just tell you, if you do that and that and that, your website will improve.

Killian Vigna: So all right. So let’s try and recap what you’ve talked about at this stage. What are some tips that you use to get some honest feedback now, I suppose, if someone was to start straight after listening to this, what should they do?

Louis Grenier: In essence, it’s really about asking them directly to be super honest and telling them that you love feedback. So even if it’s face to face, you can say, “What did you think of this treatment right now. And please be 100 percent honest. I genuinely love feedback, so I do care. I want to know.” And then you let them talk.

So act like a journalist, not a salesman in a sense. So be very curious about things. Ask them why and have a normal conversation with people. That’s as simple as it gets. How would you talk to a friend that would explain a problem they suffer from in their life or whatever. Same thing.

So if you send a survey and you have an interesting answer coming in, pick up the phone, talk to them and say, “I want to know why. Can you give me more details. And be open.” People will know from your body language and the way you ask that you genuinely care. So show you care and people will care in return.

And I know I’m going to answer a question you are not asking, but there’s a main objection to this, which is oh, but I don’t want to ask for feedback because nobody’s going to give me feedback; they don’t care. I wouldn’t leave feedback to anyone. Sure you will. To businesses that you care about you will. And you already did, I guarantee it.

So that’s why asking your happy customers, asking people who care about your business, they will be more likely to give you feedback. But you will also be surprised about even your first-time customers will be happy to help out, if you ask them nicely. I would be conscious of not to offer prizes for simple feedback, like just, how can we improve this salon. I would give prizes or money back for big tasks, like if you have to sit down for 15 minutes using your website in front of you. That kind of stuff. But for normal feedback I wouldn’t ask for compensation.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, because you do see that on the likes of social media, don’t you, where, it’s like, oh, take this two-minute survey and you can get a voucher or win a voucher. It’s almost like… and I know I’ve done it before… I flew through the survey, gave answers without thinking about my answers, just to get the voucher.

Louis Grenier: There you go. You messed up a business right there.

Killian Vigna: I know. Yeah. For the sake of a voucher. I would have been more honest if they’d given me nothing.

Louis Grenier: There you go! Exactly. That’s exactly why. So if you want people to give honest feedback, just make sure you get the feedback from people who care. And if you’re only starting, ask few questions, not too many. It’s better to focus on the one thing and do it well, rather than asking 40 questions.

Killian Vigna: And on that note, you should check out episode 24, where Louis talks about the Art of Effective Marketing Focus.

Louis Grenier: There you go.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: It’s just like anything, yeah. More focus, better answers, better results. There you go!

Louis Grenier: If I may finish, just going to give a few resources that I mentioned throughout. So the study I mentioned about customer experience… it’s a bit heavy in term of corporate. It’s corporate-heavy; I’m not sure too many salon owners would enjoy reading the lot, but the first five findings are interesting. So it’s hotjar.com/blog/customer-experience to have the point about feedback. If you want some survey questions, ideas, it’s hotjar.com/blog/survey-questions. If you want some ideas on website feedback in particular, you guessed it, it’s hotjar.com/blog/website-feedback.

It’s all for free. There’s a lot of use cases and of course hotjar.com, which is a free tool forever if you only use the free plan.

Killian Vigna: Well, look, Louis, thanks very much. It’s a pleasure always to have you on the show and I’m sure we’ll see you in the future as well doing more Phorest FM’s for us.

Louis Grenier: As usual, great chatting with you. Merci!

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Merci beaucoup!

Killian Vigna: So there were Louis’s points on how to generate customer feedback and why you shouldn’t focus necessarily just on positive feedback, but really embrace negative feedback. As long as it aligns with your business goals.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: If you know anyone with a story who’d be great on this show, slide into our DMs. We’re still planning our early 2019 calendar for Phorest FM. And if you have any feedback, feel free to leave us a review on iTunes or on Stitcher. We’re always looking for suggestions on how to improve the show. And we really do love feedback, so please be 100 percent honest. Otherwise, have a wonderful week, guys. We’ll catch you next Monday!

Killian Vigna: All the best!

Thanks for reading! #LetsGrow

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Note: Phorest FM is designed to be heard, not read. We encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion which may not translate itself on the page. Episode transcripts are produced using a third-party transcription service, some errors may remain.