
Welcome to the Salon Ownerโs Podcast, Phorest FM Episode 59. Co-hosted by Killian Vigna and Zoรฉ Bรฉlisle-Springer, Phorest FM is a weekly show that puts forth a mix of interviews with industry thought-leaders, salon/spa marketing tips, company insights and information on attending Phorest Academy webinars. Phorest FM is produced every Monday morning for your enjoyment with a cup of coffee on your day off.
Phorest FM Episode 59
What does it take to grow a business? How can one have a clear understanding of how the salon/spa has done over the past year? Which is better: to set goals, habits or intentions for the year ahead? Join Killian, Zoe, Paul Dave (Davey Davey, Hairdressing Live), Jennie Lawson (Mimosa Beauty) and Sean OโSullivan (Customer Success Team at Phorest Salon Software) as they try to find common ground in the above questions and dig into the reviewing process of a businessโ efforts to grow.
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Transcript
Killian Vigna: Welcome to the Phorest FM Podcast, Episode 59. Iโm Killian Vigna.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: And Iโm Zoe Belisle Springer.
Killian Vigna: So this weekโs episode is all about reviewing your salon business and how you go about creating a new strategy for 2018. And for the first time ever, we actually have it in front of a live audience.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: So joining us today on the show, thank you, so, joining us on the show today, we have Paul Davey from Davey Davey and Hairdressing Live, we have Sean OโSullivan from, actually our own customer success team here in Phorest and Jeannie Lawson from Mimosa Beauty in the UK.
Killian Vigna: So grab yourself a cup of coffee, sit back, relax, and join us weekly for all your salonโs business and marketing needs.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: How do you feel? Iโm excited.
Killian Vigna: Really excited, like we say every week, itโs usually a Friday or a Monday or something, myself and Zoe, we go into this little studio and we talk to a laptop, or we talk to someone over the phone.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Seriously, you should see our set up downstairs, itโs hilarious.
Killian Vigna: We were like, if people are coming into the office, why not, letโs just get guys up here, weโve got the sound system and everything, and actually do it live!
Zoe Belisle-Springer: First of all, letโs give a warm welcome to all of our three guests here today.
Of course, yes. Well, Paulโฆ
Paul Davey: You can hear me there, can you?
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Oh, is that mic working?
So, Paul, we met for the first time, last year at the summit. It was great, itโs great to see you again, bumped into yesterday. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today.
Paul Davey: My pleasure.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Jenny, same thing, we had you on the show, recently actually, just last year, and so itโs great to have you here in person.
Killian Vigna: And we also have Sean, so Sean is from our own customer success team and when you were at the Summit yesterday, you might have seen little stands that they had all over, where itโs a business analyst. Itโs all well and good listening to experts in your own field, but sometimes itโs nice to have someone from an outside perspective looking at your business. Thanks for joining us, Sean.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Letโs play a little game, because I know itโsโฆ thereโs a lot of people at the Summit, thereโs a lot of networking going on, you might not know everyoneโs faces, so, if you had, you guys, to describe yourself in a tweet or an Instagram bio, what would you say about yourselves?
Paul Davey: Okay, Iโm not gonna go first with that one. [crosstalk 00:02:28] Ladies first.
Jennie Lawson: Right, I guess for me, I go straight in with the multi-award-winning salon owner. 2014 and 16-
Paul Davey: Donโt hold back!
Jennie Lawson: Why? We all try and dull ourselves down, and actually, in an environment like this, thereโs absolutely no point, youโre standing there as an expert, thatโs the whole conversation that yesterday was about. When you are a skin specialist and an award-winning salon owner, you kind of just have toโฆ
Killian Vigna: Well you have to let them know.
Jennie Lawson: Wave about it. Thatโs me.
Paul Davey: I totally, totally agree with you.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Good luck following up on that.
Sean OโSullivan: Iโll keep it a bit more demure, Iโll say itโs just business, analytics and a probably a small bit of insanity thrown in at the same time.
Paul Davey: Again, I do agree with yourself on that one, itโs actually, youโve got to promote yourself in that regardโฆ cause social media is very much an avenue for you to promote yourself as much as you possibly can. If you can take advantage of that, itโs amazing that you can. I guess Iโm a little bit more conservative. I actually just say it how it is, as in Iโm a father, Iโm a creative, Iโm a stylist, but I also haveโฆ Iโm the founder of Hairdressing Live. Iโm soon going to be an author of a book, so thatโs going to be coming out soon. Iโm a creative, artistโฆ everything like that.
Killian Vigna: Nice one. Letโs just get straight into it. I suppose the first question is, how do you actually go about, typically reviewing your year? Do you have a process? Even something like locking in your room for a whole day, a week, anything like that. What are the first few things that youโre gonna look at?
Paul Davey: Well, I donโt lock myself in a room. Not at all, no basements, noโฆ pull the blinds and everything like that. I generallyโฆ I go in, literally, usually on Christmas is our day and when I go home, I break forโฆ itโs the only time you can actually switch off, and the world is actually switched off, isnโt it? Christmas day is like, everything switches off.
Sometimes when you go away on holiday, thereโs background noise in the background, you got emails coming in, thereโs messages, itโs like social media coming in, everything like that. Itโs the only time you can switch off and actually review your business and review that sort of time.
I totallyโฆ what I look at is obviously figures, that means an awful lot. One thing that stands out to me is actually the return rate, clientele, obviously, the volume of what weโre trying to achieve each year is obviously very, very important forโฆ like for us, we wanted to do more colour, so more colour orientated, I assessed that, and that seemed to have grown for our business, which is really, really good.
Itโs the re-bookings as well. I have a fascination about that, making sure that people are still re-booking with us, and the time between each re-booking is getting narrower or itโs getting bigger. Itโs just to know trends.
I generally, over Christmas time, I know it may sound a bit lame and a bit geeky, but I actually do sit down and actually review our year over that time. Thatโs what I do.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Thatโs great. And what about yourself, Jennie?
Jennie Lawson: I didnโt do that. We shut down the whole salon and we didnโt re-open until the first week back in January. I tried not to look at anything. The only thing I did was go back over my customer journey.
I actually did it with my whole team. We have magic whiteboards all over the walls and I didโฆ we went through every single month that happened last year and then went into what weโre planning on doing this year.
For us, last year was really, really different. Last year at the Summit, we wereโฆ Rachel and I, my PA, were here in aboutโฆ we were in the middle of a refurb, refurbing into being 100% eco salon, taking on a team. It was a completely different year.
For me, looking back, itโs purely just, where, what did we do? Because Iโd never done it before, Iโd spent five and a half years on my own. Iโd never looked atโฆ Iโd just done it, I did my job, I did it really well, I was booked two months ahead. I never had to worry or think or do anything.
Last year, it was going back and looking at, what worked, what didnโt, where the issues were, how weโre gonna move forward into 2018 and where to excel at it.
Killian Vigna: So from a data point side of it, then, Sean, would you have any-
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Even tips and tricks for a first time?
Sean OโSullivan: Both of them. Thatโs entirelyโฆ both ways I would do it. Itโs very important to analyze the actual statistics within your business, but also get your team involved in it. Cause without both of them together, youโre not gonna be able to achieve your goals as a business and grow and further everything.
The other thing is, we generally look at, more fromโฆ to drill down into more information, is checking that it has your cost percentage is still the same as it was previous year. Costs tend to always rise, so you want to be checking, are my stylists still bringing in enough money for the wage that theyโre coming in? Have my costs of doing all my services, the cost of the products, has that increased over the year, is there a price change necessary this year?
Of course, you donโt want to get to the stage where -and it can happen- youโre really busy, youโre booked out, but youโre not making money. Itโs not a place you want to look into.
Itโs a great time of year, around December, to also look into, do I need to do a different increment in my price this year? Do I need to look for other suppliers for getting a better deal on some of the stuff?
All of that stuff together really sets you up for a good year ahead.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Iโm curious, youโve been doing this for years, youโve been reviewing your business for years, have you ever noticed something that you look at every year and youโฆ it might have initially had a really good impact, but now youโre just kind of doing it because youโre doing it and you donโt know if it has that much of an impact anymore?
Paul Davey: I mean, obviously itโs my business, and I understand it, and I want to understand it, and itโs very important that we do understand our business and you donโt neglect it.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.
Paul Davey: But, like what you did say there, now, I mean, you just find yourself very, very busy all of the time. Sometimes hard to sort of look back upon it. If youโre really, really busy all the time, youโre doing something right, you know? Itโs only when youโre not that busy in certain areas that you have to delve into those areas.
It does come second nature now. Iโve been doing it for quite some time now, a certain amount of years, so it does become second nature.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Paul Davey: To just review your accounts and sit down with your accountants every quarter. We do it quarterly, Iโd love it every week actually, but quarterly and just review all your accounts and go through them thoroughly, because, sometimes what you donโt see, your accountant sees and highlights.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: That makes a lot of sense.
Paul Davey: We are hairdressers, weโre creatives, you know all beauty, so basically, itโs not our field, so itโs nice to have professionals to support you that way.
Killian Vigna: Kind of the externals looking in.
Jennie Lawson: Especially with the VAT. As soon as you get into the VAT, you need to be on it, really on it.
Paul Davey: -Still a bitโฆ like a long time, and itโs still a bit vague, how that all operates.
Killian Vigna: Cool. I suppose then, the crossover from, as opposed to reviewing, moving into the new year, the whole โNew year, new meโeveryone goes on about goals, resolutions, stuff like that. Myself and Zoe were chatting away and going, well what goals are you setting yourself?
Weโve always looked at it as, I set myself a goal and work really hard to achieve it, once Iโve achieved it, it gets dropped, you move on to the next thing. We were talking about, alright, maybe be more habitual, more habits. Making small changes every day that will all add up.
When youโre moving into the new year, is it kind of big targets, resolutions, or is it just your day by day to help grow it and improve it? I know there will always be KPIโs and targets, but do you set yourself any major goals throughout the year? You were saying about, the kind of retention?
Zoe Belisle-Springer: And the colour.
Paul Davey: 100%, I totally do. Above that, most of our goals become visionary targets. Almost, how do we change our business, how do weโฆ I mean, thereโs businesses opening up all around you all of the time. The world is moving faster than it ever has been before.
Business is evolving all of the time, technology is evolving all of the time, so we have to move with it. Iโm fighting, sometimes we get left behind, and I donโt want to be left behind, so we have to stay on top of it.
Thereโs one thing that is more apparent to me, even in yesterdayโs presentations, was customer service. Customer service is a massive, massive thing, so how do we evolve that and change that?
My vision, or my targets or my new yearโs resolutions are basically, how do we change Davey Davey and become the leader in the market? What we do? I mean, yeah, weโve got specialists in all areas, Iโm very happy about that, we continuously do training. How do we up the little things? I mean the little things that we do, in service, whether it be teas, coffeesโฆ we do that anyway, and I think everybody does that, so how do we take that up a notch? We constantly review that, as we are reviewing right now. Dโyou know? Give more back to our clients. Thatโs what it ultimately is, giving more service back.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Of course. And I mean, for yourself, youโve just transitioned into a whole new world with the eco-innovative salon, soโฆ
Jennie Lawson: With the eco, and with the team, I guess for me, I am really not a big resolution fan. Iโm more of an intention setter. Especially for January, everyoneโs like โNew Year, New You,โ whereas I believe itโs โNew Year, Nourish Youโ. Bring it back to self and how can you make yourself better in terms of fine-tuning what youโre already doing.
For us, and for me, my team, itโs just nailing team. We have a really good nuclear team, and its just, how do we get better, how are we happier at work, how do we make sure that what weโre giving people is the best that we can possibly be, because, we are the best that we can possibly be, in terms of our attitudes and looking after ourselves.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: That makes absolute sense.
Jennie Lawson: Itโs what I preach.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I did follow your 25 days of gratefulness, gratitude.
Jennie Lawson: Thank you.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: So, Paul, then, in your opinion, you have a lot of courses on Hairdressing Live and youโre obviously collaborating with a lot of salon owners out there, is thereโฆ do you find there is an area that is kind of overlooked by salon owners in their business strategies?
Paul Davey: I donโt know whether, if weโre talking about education here, are we talking about-
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Just in general, it could be education if-
Paul Davey: General. Look, Iโฆ One of the main reasons why I wanted to set this up was to give accessible education at the price people can afford, right?
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yep.
Paul Davey: But moreโฆ Above that, is to offer personal development. Personal development is exactly what motivates all of us. If we canโt see ourselves developing, then we get demotivated and we donโt see progression within our lives and in our careers, socially and professionally.
I just wanted to offer something where we can offer education because, thereโs some people who basically donโt have large teams, that canโt send people up on training expeditions, and it costs you money to travel, costs you money to put people in accomodation. First and foremost, you have children, I have children myself, to leave your children and go out and do education things, itโs a little bit harder. I just wanted to bring education more accessible to everybody atโฆ not to sound clichรฉ, I just said it there a second, at the price people can afford, but that was basically what we wanted to do. We wanted to bring it to people so they can see.
I want to bring amazing talents and anybody thatโs got something to offer and put them on the platform so they can educate our industry and bring it to a whole new level. It can have a profound effect, I believe.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I think soโฆ You had a question for Sean.
Killian Vigna: Yeah, I did. I know youโve just kind of touched off the reports in your reviewing stage of it, but ongoing and everyone thatโs using Phorest here, thereโs over a hundred reports in the system, thereโs the most, I suppose, recommended ones, but what do you, from looking outside of the salon industry, do you see as theโฆ I suppose if you were to pick five of the top reports, for you, for ongoing monitoring, and then, which reports do you feel are the most under utilized as well?
Sean OโSullivan: Thereโs quite a few, itโs like I was saying. Thereโs a lot of reports and I think everyone tends to go with the top ones that you can see in each section within Phorest. Itโs as well known what information you can get from each one. The one that I always harp on about to every client that I talk to, is theโฆ itโs the Salon Trend summary and also the Staff Trend summary. Itโs the same information, oneโs for the whole salon and one is for staff by staff.
It gives them a really great breakdown month by month of what type of clients are coming to you, is it just new clients, is it ones who are regulars with five plus visits, and then, what, especially for the hair industry, how much colour services are coming through, how much of your technical services are coming through, and break it down then, at the very bottom, into revenue per hour and cost per hour and contributions to the salon.
For me it covers the three most important things, are you giving good service, so clients coming back into you. Are you generating revenue, and are you profitable for the business. Itโs a great one to see over time.
Itโs very hard to know what staffโฆ especially in, probably larger salons, I would say, or even smaller ones, you donโt have time to step back and look over it. Has someoneโs performance dropped over time? Itโs very easy to miss, you might not always recognize it with people. That for me, gives a very brief look on how are they doing.
Is someone suddenlyโฆ is regular clients dropping away from a certain staff member, and maybe we can sit down andโฆ whatโs happening, how can we get you back to where you used to be?
Other ones then, would be kind of standard ones like utilization to see, are you over staffing the salon or isโฆ it helps as well, recognizing when salons are quieter when it might not seem to beโฆ it happens a lot in salons where you might have small gaps, five minutes between appointments, but if you have five minute gaps between every single appointment, youโll notice utilization dropping down to well below 70%, because of those tiny little gaps. They really add up.
Itโs a good indicator of, are you rostering efficiently, are the front desk booking in people at times when they should be? They should be maximizing all the time. Cause, really, their job isnโt just to give good service, itโs also to maximize the profit for the salon, but doing it in such a way that makes an amazing experience for the client, gets them to come back in to you.
Other ones then, the retention reports. Youโre saying itโs the most important thing in the salon. The industry in general runs on retention. If you have a high retention, it doesnโt cost you more to bring them back in again, youโre not marketing out to people, youโre not doing discounts, special offers, in general for them. They come to you because they love you and they want to keep coming to you because the quality of service. Thatโs incredibly important for everyone.
You generally find in salons as well that their older clients, you have about 60 to 70% retention, new clients tend to be about half that, in general. You want to find thereโฆ what I always recommend to salons is, you find your top performer. Who is the best at keeping new clients coming back to you and getting the old ones coming back in, and paring them up with the worst performer.
Itโs not an exercise of making someone feel bad, you want them to improve. Maybe theyโre missing the skill set, maybe they havenโt got that knowledge yet. I think that one would be really beneficial.
Thatโs four, but thatโs all youโre gonna get.
Killian Vigna: But it kind of touches base on what Gavin Hoare was saying yesterday. Just cause youโve got someone up here whoโs banging out loads of appointments all day and then someone whoโs unable to get through a few. Youโre not saying oneโs better than the other, youโre actually comparing and trying to find a happy medium between the two of them.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: How do you feel about that, you guys?
Jennie Lawson: The trends, I think, is fabulous, because thatโs howโฆ when you go from work, cause I was working on my own for so long, when you go from what youโre average spendโฆ you know that you need to be bringing in 50 pound per hour, and then you go back and you look at all the trends and you see how itโs gone up and gone down and you can kind of watch it.
The trends for me, as well, what I found when I was working on my own, was, it shows when I took some holiday. You can tell when it goes down, cause Iโm like, high, high, high, drop, really high, cause Iโm back and Iโm working 9 till 9.
Itโs really good to be able to just watch and track it and to see whatโs going on and see the difference from when you go from being on your own, taking, five grand a month to taking on a team and youโre taking on 17.
Itโs those kind of things, also, when youโre then looking at business plans and youโre looking at actually getting investment and all that kind of stuff. Theyโre the things that you print off and go โLook, hereโs my growth, done.โ It makes life so much easier.
Killian Vigna: This is good.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: He always looks at me like that when weโre recording the podcast downstairs.
Jennie Lawson: Haha, I was going to say โWhat does that look mean?โ
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Okay, so letโs say youโve identified areas in the salon that you want to improve on for the year, you were saying last year you wanted to improve on the colour and stuff like that, how do you go about sharing it to the team, getting the team to embark in the vision and, getting towards that goal, towards the end of the year?
Paul Davey: Communication. I mean, look, we do have regular talks. Maybe not as often with meetings as we possibly should, but we should have more five minute little huddles and get together and just review each day as it comes.
We are getting better. I think itโs just something, whenever you have so many plates spinning, itโs just trying to juggle all that. I think communication is the best way to do, and keep everybody transparent.
We monetizeโฆ our management team actually puts in a structure work, all the guys fill in, they know each week what theyโre taking in, what retail their doing, numbers, numbers. They see it in a review sheet over months, which is great. Itโs monetizingโฆ look, how do you monitor peopleโs progression? How do you manage peopleโs progression? You have to monitor it. People have to know it by almost physically putting things in and they see it tangibly at the end of every week, where they go, โOh, God, I did a really good week that week or I did a bad week.โ But if you donโt do anything at all, then they donโt know and itโs forgotten about. You know?
Itโs forgotten about. Itโs having to see something weekly and know that their own personal growth and their own personal development. Ultimately, we are a commission-based industry, obviously the more commission that theyโฆ the more money that they turn, the more money they earn.
Killian Vigna: It keeps them on top. I find it interesting that youโre saying that, cause our last question was actually, do you get your teamโฆ so, based off the #30Days2Grow that we did in July, a lot of the feedback was, that salon owners were impressed at how engaged, their team actually got on board with the ideas and was more involved and it increased morale.
I know you were saying you do the whiteboards, with your team already.
Jennie Lawson: Yeah, we do that all the time.
Killian Vigna: Youโve always done that.
Paul Davey: How often do you have that, by the way?
Jennie Lawson: How often?
Paul Davey: Yeah. Out of curiosity.
Jennie Lawson: Iโm looking at you. I donโt know, every two, three weeks? It depends what it is, I guess.
Iโm really transparent. This is still really new to me, having a team, so when it came to going through 2017 and going through 2018, it was, okay, this is what we did 2017, is there anything Iโve missed? Kind of like, your brains are probably working better than mine. Then, letโs look at 2018 and look where the problems were.
We got in too late with teachers, we were doing treat your teacher in July, when actually, that needed to be in May, because people were already buying stuff. Itโs justโฆ Itโs havingโฆ Itโs knowing that you are not necessarily the smartest person in the room, because they come up with gems all the time. Itโs only by allowing them to have that space to create, that you-
Paul Davey: Love what youโre saying, honestly, itโs amazing.
Jennie Lawson: There are times, when we have issues and stuff that happens, we have so many little meetings. Letโs put this together, weโre all gonna sit down, we all sit on the floor. If we have a problem, I lock the door and theyโre not allowed out until weโre done with it. [crosstalk 00:22:28]
But then, Iโmโฆ itโs a women industry, you have toโฆ I know that goes completely off 2018, but itโsโฆ we have to be able to communicate. Sometimes, when someoneโs having a really bad day, you need to know that theyโre having a bad day and they need to come in going, hey I havenโt slept, Iโm exhausted, Iโve got a full day of massage and Iโm gonna be really grumpy today.
The answer to that shouldnโt be, okay, well Iโm just going to leave you over there. It should be, what do you need? What do you need from me so you can do your job to the best ability that you can? We communicate on that level a lot anyway.
Then with the whiteboardsโฆ Iโm a creative, my whole house is covered in them.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Is it actually?
Jennie Lawson: Yeah. Iโm really lucky that Iโm single. Iโve still got the mindmap from when I created Mimosa. When I created that, Iโve still got the mind map, I took it everywhere with me, any business even I went to, Iโd put it up on my wall so I could add stuff to it.
Iโve then done, the last part of 2017, itโs all on the wall. I can then take stuff inโฆ any training that we do, we write it all up on the wall, I take pictures of it, Rachel writes it up into a book.
Paul Davey: One of the most valuable things, I think what you said there, as well, was involving your staff. Do you know what, I think if you involve staff that way, they feel part of a team.
Jennie Lawson: We underestimate them. We really under estimate their brains. They are incredible human beings. Each one of us are and each person looks at life in a completely different way. You have to be able to give them that opportunity to have that idea, because, we, as salon owners, we are juggling a hundred and fifty balls and the one thing you havenโt thought about, happens to be the one thing that they are actually, theyโre like, โoh, why donโt we just do this?โ
We had a client whinge that I didnโt give them a cup of tea at the end of a 9pm treatment at my old salon. I gave it to the group, and my lawyer turned around and she went, why donโt we just get take away cups?
I was like, why donโt we just get take away cups? Well thatโs a genius idea.
Paul Davey: Why didnโt you say it sooner?
Killian Vigna: It might seem so simple to them, and if youโre not giving them the opportunity to give that advice, or make their own decisions, theyโre gonna think, oh itโs a stupid silly idea, sheโs already thought about it so Iโm not gonna give it. Youโre actually giving that, youโre creating that environment for them.
Jennie Lawson: But you also find that if you donโtโฆ if I go in full guns blazing, we need to earn this amount of money and this is how weโre gonna do it and Iโve created this whole gateway, cause thatโs what I spent my whole weekend doing, and they go โOh, alright.โ They just look at you, whereas, actually if you go, how are we gonnaโฆ we need to be increasing revenue, and we need to be getting more clients in on my stuff cause Iโm higher earning and I need to be giving you more of my clients, how do you want me to do that? How do we do this? And they go, like a point system.
So we donโt do commission, weโve just launched a points referral thing. I spent ages, ages, ages going back and forward, how am I gonna do this points thing, how many points is each person worth, and I spent a whole weekend planning it on the wall. Then I go in and Iโm like, Iโm gonna delegate this to you, you can earn points, and we worked it out, if you get a point for every single person you re-book, you get a pointโฆ acts of kindness and if you go and do a chocolate run, and all those kind of things, and how many points do you think itโs worth to get a half a day holiday? How many points do you think you deserve if you work it out and youโve got two people an hour, you do 33 hours a week, you do 66 people, it worked out 265 points if you have someone every half an hour, you get 265 points a month. How often do you feel that you need to be rewarded for your job?
Zoรฉ Bรฉlisle-Springer: Thatโs brilliant. [crosstalk 00:26:13]
Jennie Lawson: Well itโs my idea, Iโve already sent it over, Iโve already sent you over my imagesโฆ but I gave it to them and they were the ones that came up, they said it needed to be a thousand days for a half day holiday, it needed to be two thousand points for them to get a whole day holiday, I was like, oh alright then.
There was me going to give them five points for each thing, you want one point for re-booking? Great, done.
Killian Vigna: Thatโs brilliant.
Sean OโSullivan: I think it makes them much more powerful, saying itโs one thing, especially fromโฆ when I really started support with Phorest, youโd hear quite a lot, the fear salon owners have of their staff, instead of getting them involved and really making them a part of the business, theyโre much more, oh someoneโs gonna betray me and take all my clients.
That will happen eventually in any business, something like that will happen. I think if you get them emotionally involvedโฆ money, you need money to live, thatโs without a doubt, but when you get someone emotionally bought into your business, theyโre not gonna do that.
Jennie Lawson: Our business doesnโt run without them.
Sean OโSullivan: Exactly, you cannot. And I think having that fear โ
Paul Davey: -working with cool peopleโฆ itโs nice to have an environment where everybody gets something. Obviously thereโs occasions where people have ups and downs, weโre human beings. To work in an environment where youโre working with great people andโฆ it just makes the job a lot easier.
Jennie Lawson: Well, also clients notice.
Paul Davey: Yeah, they do indeed.
Jennie Lawson: Clients notice when, if Iโm stressed about the numbers, everyone else is stressed cause it ripples, like tendrils out to everybody. If Jennieโs stressed about the money, then everyoneโs stressed about the money. Whereas, actually, we have a day like Saturday, itโs like guysโฆ whatever, letโs just have fun. So you have a day having fun, and itโs like, โOh wow, look, revenueโs right up.โ You think okay, well just stop stressing about it. And just enjoy each other.
Killian Vigna: Team involvementโs definitely a big thing.
Jennie Lawson: Hundred percent.
Sean OโSullivan: Itโs so important to a business.
Killian Vigna: You were sayingโฆ about fear of losing your staff, that brought us over to, I suppose itโs the last closing point. Salon networking, is that a big thing that you do? Cause I know thereโs the fear of, why would I talk to this salon owner, theyโre gonna take my ideas and might go and do it better, but, youโre part of a mastermind group, you were saying earlier on.
Is salon networking a thing?
Jennie Lawson: Itโs not a salon networking group. Itโs just a business one.
Killian Vigna: I know mastermind is a business one, but, do you do any salon networking other than something like this weekend?
Zoe Belisle-Springer: The Summit.
Killian Vigna: Would you do much of it?
Paul Davey: Yeah. I would consider that as my networking. I would considerโฆ we go to loads of different events. I love sharing ideas, because, do you know what? Thereโs great good will out there.
And you know what? Everybodyโs busy doing their own bloody thing, so you know what, you want to steal my idea? Knock yourself out. Honestly. In my opinion, itโs very much like, itโs the process that you have to go through to achieve those goals that stops anybody from doing anything.
In my opinion, by sharing ideas with other people, they share ideas back, and you get so much more in return. The more you give, the more you get back, in my opinion. I just give, give, give and trying and give information and network with people. Itโs amazing to do that, rather than being a closed door, you close so many doors around you. Iโm sorry.
Killian Vigna: If youโre not gonna share your experiences, why is anyone gonna share with you? Then how do you learn? How do you move on. Everything is stuck on your shoulders then.
Paul Davey: Very true. And do you know what, the more you talk about it to other people, they come back withโฆ you give something to somebody and then they come back and go, how about you do it this way or that way? You go, bloody, I didnโt think about that.
Itโs amazing the way you can actually network and communicate with people that way. Honestly, there have been some great ideas that weโve come out with recently, with the Hairdressing Live, and with the book. I canโt share that enough with people, as much as I possibly can. People say, โOh people are gonna rob that idea, or people could have taken that idea.โ And Iโm like, yeah, but you know what? If they did, I would shake your hand and go, fair play for you doing it, cause it takes months and months and months to do it.
Itโs a heartache, you nearly lose relationships over it, itโs a grueling job. The book takes about three to five years to do, so again, knock yourself out. If you do, I shake your hand and go โbrilliant.โ
Itโs amazing, but thatโs my opinion on it.
Killian Vigna: Youโre in the exact same situation, because, when we came across, for the last episode, with you was aboutโฆ alright, youโre 100% eco-friendly in the UK, the first salon, and we thought, weโll interview Jennie, weโll get a little bit of information. We were surprised about how much information you actually shared about it. Because, like that, it was a mammoth of work. It wasnโt something that someone could just.
Jennie Lawson: But I would say that about anything. There is not one thingโฆ even the gratitude advent, someone said to me, oh I would have done, I was like, great, go and copy and paste it. If you copy and paste it, itโs my words. More people find it, more people will see it, more people will read it, awesome.
I have been burnt, I have had someone buy one of my domain names and link their website to it, so I am very protective. Thatโs brand, Iโm protective over my brand, Iโm not protective over the content that I have on it.
With the eco-stuff, my God, weโre trying to change the planet here, the more people that know about how to do it, get on it. Itโs not hard.
I think when it comes to networking and sharing, a hundred percent, its very difficult within beauty because people are so protective. I came to the summit last year, purely with the intention of, I need to know how much people are paying their staff. I need to know what commission rates people are on, because I didnโt have a clue.
You get some people that are really open, you get other people that wonโt talk about it. But how do you know whatโs normal, if no one is prepared to talk about it? Because we all need help, weโre all employing people. You find the more you talk to people and the more โฆ the issues you have about staffing, you mention one thing and everyoneโs like, Oh my God, yeah, I had thatโฆ and then she found out she was pregnant, and you think oh great, again?
The thing I pick up from my mastermind is that actually; if someone can give you the information that means youโre not gonna fail, that one step, and you can overcome one hurdle because someone else has been through it, just spread it. People have to share their problems and the things that they find difficult because thatโs the only way people learn.
Killian Vigna: So go knocking on doors.
Jennie Lawson: Yeah. But I askโฆ weโre getting waved atโฆ I get askedโฆ I ask people all the time, every single, anything I donโt understand, Iโm like hey, do you know anything about this? No, okay next one. Do you know anything about this? How do I do this? How can I speak at Phorestโs Summit next year? How can Iโฆ I went around the whole room.
If youโre not prepared to ask, if youโre not humble enough to say, I actually donโt know the answer to that question, then youโre never gonna succeed.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Thatโs brilliant. I think youโve got some [crosstalk 00:32:53] I think you had something on that actually.
Killian Vigna: Our closing remarks were going to be on that, but you both just nailed it yourselves. Itโs basically, go knocking on peopleโs doors. Donโt be afraid to share peopleโs experiences, because, like that, if you donโt share, no one else is gonna give you advice.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: I think youโre both two great examples of leadership in both respective areas, I think itโs great that you were on the show today. We have been waved at, so we have to leave the stage.
Paul Davey: I think Iโve got a client waiting for me. I really do, Iโm not joking.
Zoe Belisle-Springer: Thanks again for joining us on the show today. If you have any feedback, guys, please feel free to leave a comment on iTunes. Weโre also on Stitcher this year. Donโt forget to subscribe, have a wonderful week, and weโll catch you next Monday!
Killian Vigna: All the best.
Thanks for reading!
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