Welcome to the Salon Owner’s Podcast, Phorest FM Episode 40. Co-hosted by Killian Vigna and Zoé Bélisle-Springer, this show is a mix of interviews with industry thought-leaders, roundups of our most recent salon owners marketing tips & tricks, all the latest in and around Phorest and what upcoming webinars you can join. Phorest FM is produced every Monday morning for your enjoyment with a cup of coffee on your day off.

Phorest FM Episode 40

It’s the end of August and so as per usual, Killian and Zoe take a break from the industry interviews and round-up everything that’s happened in the past month. They’ll discuss the pitfalls of marketplaces in the hair and salon industry, how to build trust as a leader, salon owner or manager, daily habits for success and the importance of building a salon culture to charge a premium amount for your treatments and services! If you think you missed any content this month, jump on this episode and you’ll find yourself right back on track.



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Killian Vigna: Welcome to the Phorest FM podcast, episode 40. I’m Killian Vigna.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And I’m Zoe Belisle-Springer.

Killian Vigna: This week’s episode, is a monthly roundup of our August posts from the Phorest Salon Software Blog.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: We discuss the dark truths of salon marketplaces, seven daily habits of happy and successful salon owners, how to charge a premium amount for your salon services, and how to build trust as a leader in the salon and spa industry. As always, we top off the show with our upcoming Phorest Academy webinars.

Killian Vigna: This podcast is produced every Monday morning for your enjoyment with a cup of coffee, on your day off. Now, let’s get into the show. Welcome back to the show everyone. We’re just going to kick it straight off with our four most popular blogs, or Zoe’s four most popular of the month.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: The first one that stood out was The Dark Truths of Salon Marketplaces. It’s something I knew would stand out straight away. But it was actually Connor’s blog, our marketing team lead, and he wrote that back in 2015, so we were just revisiting it and …

Killian Vigna: And it still became the number one.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: It’s still very, it’s a very actual subject still in 2017.

Killian Vigna: And like dark, dark is perfect for of what it is, like.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Sure, exactly.

Killian Vigna: What’s so dark about it?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: What he explains is that the marketplace pitches itself as like a discovery tool. You go onto that marketplace and they promise you that they’ll put you in front of new clients, and new customers, and you’ll get loads of income through that.

Killian Vigna: Now, this is the marketplace talking to the salon owner?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yes, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like on the client side of things, a client is brought to a page. They have a list of salons in the area. They browse. Select say your salon, and they make a booking. The company behind the website or that app, so for instance, Zanadoo, or any kind of marketplace, will take a percentage of what the client books. Usually it’s around 20%, as Connor was saying. Then from your side of things, that client is coming in and it’s a new client. But what they don’t tell you is that most of them aren’t actually promoting retention, and that’s the main problem.

Killian Vigna: So, I suppose the best way to put it is you’re the salon owner, so Zoe’s Salon, yeah. And I’m the end user, so I want to get my hair done. I go on to Zanadoo.com or whatever it is, and I go 20%, 30% off, 50% off, 80% off haircut, well, yeah, I’m going to book into that. I make my booking. The marketplace, Zanadoo gets 20% of that booking fee and you …

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, I get a new client.

Killian Vigna: You get a new client. But you’ve given me 80% off your treatment?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yes, straight off the bat, that’s bad.

Killian Vigna: Okay.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Second, I’m giving 20% to that marketplace. But what they actually don’t tell you, is the next time that client, so you go and book a haircut, and go back onto that marketplace, they’re not going to show you my salon. They’re going to push other salons nearby to make you go and try another place.

Killian Vigna: So, even though you’re offering the highest percentage off your service, like I said, the 80%, because I’ve gone in, I’ve booked with you, got my 80% off, if I was to go back on to Zanadoo’s marketplace, you’re not going to appear again?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Well.

Killian Vigna: Not straight away.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Not straight away, yeah, because what they’ll do is they’ll use discount codes. They’ll be sent to, for instance, you, from the website, and from different salons in the area. And the ones that you haven’t previously booked with.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: So, you’ll be tempted to use those discount codes because, why not. If you’re the type of client that goes onto those marketplaces, you’re looking for the cheapest price. You’re going to be tempted to go to a new place, just because they have a better offer.

Killian Vigna: So, this is essentially like shuffling a deck of cards?

Zoe Belisle: Pretty much, yeah.

Killian Vigna: The deal is always going to be different?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly.

Killian Vigna: Oh, I like that.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: The second thing they’ll do is they’ll …

Killian Vigna: No, I don’t like that, but I like that analogy. Sorry, I just want to clear that up. It’s like a deck of cards. Yes, so your salons are being shuffled the whole time?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, exactly, definitely. Second thing they’ll do is they’ll put out special offers on the listing site, but again, they won’t make my salon stand out, and they’ll make other salons in the area stand out more so than mine, because you haven’t booked with other places before.

Killian Vigna: Okay.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: The third thing they’ll do is they’ll have automated premium listings. So, basically, what that does and I’ll just read out what Connor says, because he explains it perfectly, “They’ll make salons that you haven’t tried before move up to the top of the page, so it increases the click-through rate, and the likelihood of you changing salons.”

Killian Vigna: That’s almost like reverse SEO. So, the search engine optimization. The more clicks you’re going to get on the website, the higher up you’re going to… Well, with other factors of course, but the more popular your salon is on Google, you’re going to appear at the top.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: According to the marketplace, the more popular you are, you’re essentially going down nearly.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, I suppose, kind of. Basically, if you’ve booked with me before, they’re going to push other salons on the listing cause they’re making more money off of doing that, than to promoting my salon again.

Killian Vigna: Okay.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: The fourth thing they’ll do is they’ll do targeted advertising. Basically, they’ll advertise specific salons to you on Facebook, other social networks, and obviously, it won’t be mine either again. So, they’ll push every other business that they can get a new booking fee from to you because you haven’t booked with them before.

Killian Vigna: Interesting. So, it is dark?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: It is quite dark, yeah.

Killian Vigna: You don’t want to be there because like only like we said, you offer massive discounts. But then you’re not even getting that constantly. There’s no consistency there.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: No, exactly, like none at all. The other problem Connor lists is that, and he calls it the “me too” syndrome. I think it’s a really, really brilliant way of saying it. It’s basically if the salon down the street is on say Zanado or any kind of marketplace, then that causes fear for me as a saloon owner, because I’m possibly missing out on something that you’re getting.

Killian Vigna: Aaaah, F.O.M.O.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. So exactly. But like, the thing is, while it might get you new clients through the door once, you’re all of a sudden attracting the wrong type of clients entirely.

Killian Vigna: I suppose it makes sense, isn’t it? If like the marketplace if it’s all about offering the highest discount you’re looking for, or you’re attracting discounters, or…

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Deal hunters.

Killian Vigna: Deal hunters, that’s the one, yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, and the thing is deal hunters will always want deals, but when you’re trying to provide and guarantee quality in service and pricing, there’s no way you’re going to make that with deals. You’re worth what you’re worth, and that’s what you should be charging.

Killian Vigna: Yeah. I suppose another danger this is is like if you’re on Zanadoo and you’re offering these discounts, how can you then turn around and charge full price to someone else?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, exactly. You’ll be alienating your regular client base as well by doing that.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, because if I’m a regular client of yours, and I go and I pay a hundred quid, for whatever the treatment is, but then Mary comes through Zanadoo and pays 20 quid, I am not going to be happy about that.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly.

Killian Vigna: Because Mary is not going to come back to you.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And the thing is like when you think about it, the real good clients that you have, they’ll generate also very good clients by just referring you.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And that’s the main thing you should be focusing on, not giving out deals and being on these marketplaces.

Killian Vigna: Okay, so if we rounded up, what are the main problems here Zoe?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Connor lists three. The first one is that marketplaces have caused quality salons to believe that discounting is a powerful form of marketing, when actually it isn’t. And we all know that, we’ve been talking about this for months now, with the whole 30 days to grow campaign stuff as well. Second problem is that they’ve placed focus on getting new clients as the best way to grow your salon, when again, that’s not true. Retention is probably the most important factor and your average client bill.

Killian Vigna: And I’m just looking at the blog here, like apparently these sites only have a 3% retention rate.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, it’s nothing. It’s nearly nothing.

Killian Vigna: That’s insane.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. Marketplaces, if you just think about it, like think about a taxi company. It works for that.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: It just does not work in the beauty and hair industry.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Problem number three is that overall, they’re just cheapening the industry at a local level, and that’s not good for anyone. Everyone’s trying to show how much you’re worth, and you go into education, you get courses, you get trained for this. You’re worth what you’re worth. You shouldn’t be discounting or cheapening your services just for the sake of being on this marketplace.

Killian Vigna: I suppose, put into your own perspective. If you’re going looking for the best deal, or the biggest discount, you’re not looking for quality, are you?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: No, not really.

Killian Vigna: You’re looking for the cheapest. So, yeah, if you want to be that guy that keeps offering discounts the whole time and using cheap products, and your clients just want cheap product and cheap service then that’s great. But, how many of your clients are actually coming into your salon looking for, like I don’t want to walk in and come out looking cheap.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: I want to walk in, give you the money to make me look good.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, because, like for instance, if I’m going into a place, I know that you know best.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And that’s what I’m paying you for, I need advice, I need reassurance that what I’m going to get is the quality I’m looking for.

Killian Vigna: Yeah. I suppose to just to wrap it all up, or to wrap this blog up, how do we know this? And why did we keep saying Zanadoo?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Personally, I wasn’t there at the time, but Phorest-

Killian Vigna: I wasn’t here either, I’ve just seen it on the blog now.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, so Phorest years ago, had a listing site called Zanadoo, and it was set up with great intentions. It was set up in the hopes of getting more clients for salons, but-

Killian Vigna: Just to bear in mind, this was set up way before like marketplaces were becoming damaging.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, exactly.

Killian Vigna: This was a new idea at the time.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly, yeah.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: So what Connor explains cause he was there at the time, so he says that while Phorest thought the site could get salons some new clients and the software would then help them get them back again more than once.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: The software does that, it still does, it always did, but the listing site only drove clients from one salon to another, just looking for deals. Basically, we just shut it down.

Killian Vigna: While the intention was there to get the new clients in, and then use Phorest Salon Software to retain them, all it was doing was just getting new clients in, and again, shuffling the deck of cards.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly.

Killian Vigna: Even though the system retains your clients, it doesn’t retain the clients through a marketplace, because nothing retains clients to a marketplace essentially.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: That’s the best way of putting it, yeah, exactly.

Killian Vigna: Can you quote that one?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, so that’s a really, really interesting read. I strongly suggest you go onto the blog and look for Dark Truth Salon Marketplace. It’s by Connor Keppel, our marketing team lead, and seriously, worth the read, like five minutes of your time, today, tomorrow, whatever.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. Second most popular one, and we’ve discussed this one loads two weeks ago.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, we went into a lot of detail on this one. Maybe we’ll just skim this and kind of refer you back.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: I’ll just do a little refresh, yeah, exactly.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, we’ll refer you back because this is a very good blog.

Zoe Belisle-Springer:: This is the Seven Daily Habits of Happy and Successful Salon Owners. It’s the one I wrote because I literally had just finished a book where it was just like self-development and being happy, and focusing on yourself and stuff. There’s like seven points I listed through doing research on loads of different business and entrepreneur sites, and what makes successful people happy. And how you can focus on yourself and create more time to focus on your own goals. As I said, two weeks ago, we discussed this like in depth. We’ll just skim over this one for now.

Killian Vigna: I won’t throw too many question in, so.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. I suppose, instead of going through the seven points, the three main ones that stood out were probably reading, and that’s something actually we’re both very focused on at the moment.

Killian Vigna: We were actually just talking about it before. You’ve just got a new book in, Out of our Minds.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, Out of our Minds, yeah.

Killian Vigna: Learning to creative.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, so that should be really interesting. I’ll probably write a little roundup and …

Killian Vigna: Did I just do a spoiler?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: No, it’s fine. Yeah, I’ll do a little summary on that in the upcoming weeks on the Phorest Blog, so-

Killian Vigna: But it is true though, like the more you read, the more you learn.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, because people make mistakes and these books are essentially, especially like business books and self-development books, they’re all analysis’ of what worked and what didn’t work, and why it didn’t work.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, you don’t need to be afraid of failure, as long as you know how to learn from it.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly, yeah. Then, the second big point that stood out this book for me I suppose is spending time with people who inspire you.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, I know that one’s right up there.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: I mean, if you’re spending time with people who just keep dragging you down and are not as ambitious as you, you’re just going to go back to that level.

Killian Vigna: How many times have you been in a job where all people do is bitch and moan in their job, and then all of a sudden, you’re going in with heavy shoulders, heavy head, and you’re bitching and moaning.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Bitching and moaning!

Killian Vigna: Yeah, and then that’s when you realize like, I need to get out of here. I need to be with positive people.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly.

Killian Vigna: Not even positive people, just people who are on the level that you want to be at.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: I suppose if you do want to bitch and moan all day, yeah, great.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. The last final point. This is kind of like a mix of two points, but I’m just going to quote it, “If you don’t build your dreams, someone will hire you to help build theirs.” It’s kind of like focus on your own goals, but also get shit done.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Realistically.

Killian Vigna: Exactly.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. Again, it’s on the Phorest Blog. It was one of the most popular ones, so you might have seen it on social media going around. The third one we had was a guest blog from Richard McCabe, who we just had on Phorest FM last week.

Killian Vigna: Had him on the show, yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. So, How To Charge A Premium Amount For Your Salon Services. Again, we discussed this two weeks ago, how it’s not just about the service you provide, but also the culture you build in your salon, and the experience you build in your salon, and why people are actually buying into that experience.

Killian Vigna: This kind of touches off the whole, be with people that inspire you.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: Okay.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: I suppose, yeah. What makes your salon strong is its culture. And if you don’t have that, don’t expect to be the top salon in the area. Like you want to create, people are buying into experiences more now, than ever.

Killian Vigna: I want to feel comfortable going to your salon. I don’t want to feel like I’m going in, I’m rushed, I’m sitting there awkward, getting my treatment done, my service done, and then straight back home. I don’t want to feel like that, especially with the money that I’m handing over. I’m willing to pay a bit extra if I can go into somewhere that I feel at ease, I feel relaxed. Because think about it, if I’m going to be sitting in that chair for an hour, I’m going to want to be chilled.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, definitely. So, that’s another one that again, discussed two weeks ago, strongly recommend, it’s a good read. Takes about three, four minutes.

Killian Vigna: And that’s Richard McCabe, coach at iSalon coaching.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly. The fourth one and final most popular one is another guest blog, and this time by Valerie Delforge, who we’ve had multiple times on the show. She writes for us every month.

Killian Vigna: A salon owner procedure manual specialist.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yes, exactly. This time, she comes back with new management tips and how to build trust with what she calls, the leader principle. Basically, like how do you build trust when you’re a manager, when you’re a salon owner, when you’re in charge of a team in the industry. She goes by actually using the word leader, and defining every letter by a principle. L for lucid vision, where she says that basically passion breeds passion, and vision breeds goals. If you have a crystal clear vision of what you want to achieve, and you’re able to share it in the most clear way with your staff, then they’ll get onboard.

Killian Vigna: Be transparent about your idea.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, they’ll get on board. If they don’t understand what you’re looking for, or what you’re trying to achieve, how do you expect them to be onboard?

Killian Vigna: Exactly, yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: I suppose it’s like, the best way of putting that is don’t be the manager that boxes themselves away in the office all day. And expect your team to know what you expect of them.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly.

Killian Vigna: Be open.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly. And then E is for eternal organization. Creativity comes in all sorts of ways, and you just need to figure out what works for you, and how to be organized within that.

Killian Vigna: Yeah, I mean like, it’s an organized mess.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and A, she says, is for always sincere, so always being transparent. Building trust basically comes down to all your work ethics and honesty. If you’re not honest with your team, don’t expect your team to trust you. It’s just a given.

Killian Vigna: Like are going to be someone like if you’re cold and not mindful of your staff, are you going to be someone they’re going to follow in to like difficult territories essentially. I suppose that’s comes from, you know like, you always see like those navy seal leader principles and stuff like that. It’s like, a good leader is someone that your team will follow anywhere, essentially.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, pretty good. Yeah, you’d trust.

Killian Vigna: Cause you’re going to be the one that goes into it first, into the thick. If it’s a busy hectic Saturday, you’ve got to lead by example.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah. D, she says is for doubtless love. Basically, she says that if you can show your love and your passion for what your business is and what you want to achieve, it’s easier for people to be able to connect with that and then trust you, and then trust in your choices and your decisions with the business.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Fairly simple. Again, second E is for echoing actions. So, if you say something, do it. Don’t go back on it, or just don’t not do anything, you know what I mean. If you do that thing, make sure you measure the success or the results of it, you know. Like as in anything, even your marketing efforts, measure your efforts.

Killian Vigna: Exactly, yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: And last but not least, she says that R is for regular communication. That’s something that she’s brought up many, many, many times in talks, seminars, blogs, the podcast. You need to communicate with your staff. You need to be having those monthly meetings, weekly meetings, the hurdles even if you want to. Just make sure that everyone knows what’s going on.

Killian Vigna: Again, you can’t expect your staff to know if you don’t tell them, and communicate it, well, yeah, regularly communicate it.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: Like it’s up to you to make sure they know. It’s not up to them to know what you’re talking about when you don’t tell them.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly. So, those were our four most popular blogs of the month. Before we move on to the webinars and coming up, we have a new contest and, we’ve been talking about it. We’ve just even mentioned it just now. The prize is books. Read more business books.

Killian Vigna: Read more books. And they are…

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, they’re quite, they’re really interesting. First one, Get Shit Done, by Niall Harbison. Basically, his guide of getting the life that you want.

Killian Vigna: From a Spare Room to Boardroom in a Thousand Days, an Entrepreneur’s Guide to Getting the Life You Want.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly. The second one is from John DiJulius.

Killian Vigna: Who we’ve had on the show.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yep, and this one is The Customer Service Revolution. So, definitely a good read.

Killian Vigna: This man knows people.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: This a great book, and it’s even a quote from Seth Godin as well, marketing genius.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: There you go. And the third one, Good to Great by Jim Collins. He also wrote Build to Last, so it’s all about why some companies make the leap, and why some just don’t.

Killian Vigna: Yeah.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Why some are great and why some fail.

Killian Vigna: This is actually a book that Connor, our own manager, gives to all of us when we start.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah.

Killian Vigna: It’s a big book, but it’s an interesting book.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Definitely, yeah, yeah. That’s a bundle. So, there will only be one winner, and I strongly encourage you to share this contest because more you share it. If people say – if I share my referral link that you’ll get in your email once you’ve signed up for the contest – if you share that link and say, Killian enters through my link, I get referral points, so more entries in the contest to win the book.

Killian Vigna: Double points.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Exactly. Yeah, so one winner. It’s on until September 7th and yeah, that’s pretty much it.

Killian Vigna: In terms of books and the competition, I think that is it. And now, we’re just wrapping up with the webinars.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, so, we’ve got this on retailing master class that’s with me, from 3 to 4 pm, UK/Ireland Time and from 10 to 11 am, US Eastern Time. Again, as per usual every month, I just to discuss how to create a retailing culture in your salon, and how to get away from the stigma of selling retail and…

Killian Vigna: It’s through Facebook event.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yes, exactly.

Killian Vigna: That’s it.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: So, Facebook, find tickets from the event and it’s free.

Killian Vigna: Free as always.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Just save your spot, and then once you’ve saved that, you’ll get a unique link into your emails.

Killian Vigna: And always, if you’re enjoying the show, let us know. Maybe some feedback. Tweet us; who else you want to hear on the show, what else you want to hear about… Maybe actually what blogs you want Zoe to write?

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, what topics do you want me to write about?

Killian Vigna: Is it around the area of your salon that you just kind of I suppose you’re finding difficult to work on.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Stuck.

Killian Vigna: Yes, stuck. I mean, even after the #30Days2Grow challenge. A lot of salon owners find that there was newer, even though they knew most of the challenges, there were still some areas that they were surprised. They were like, “Oh, that’s new. I’ll try it out.” If there’s anything, yeah, let us find out. We’ll do the research for you.

Zoe Belisle-Springer: Yeah, exactly, that’s our job. I suppose, that rounds it up for our monthly roundup. Have an amazing week and we’ll catch you next Monday.

Killian Vigna: All the best.

Thanks for reading!


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