A leadership conversation with Jay Williams,

Josh Hafetz & Zoé Bélisle-Springer

Phorest Salon Software

This vs. That is a handbook for every leader regardless of their level of experience. The individual chapters explain how to make better choices for your business, organization, and people. Taken as a whole, it provides a complete philosophy of leadership that will raise your game. Learn to have conversations that are shorter, more productive, and more energizing.


This conversation featuring Jay Williams (author of This vs. That, speaker and consultant), Josh Hafetz (President of Art of Business), and Zoé Bélisle-Springer (Community & Content Manager), will better equip you to understand the thinking and skills leaders need to convert common sense to common practice.

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